3 ms·

Apple Pay charges the banks a percentage per transaction on the credit card, despite not taking absolutely any of the risk in that operation. Plus a quarterly f

Apple Pay charges the banks a percentage per transaction on the credit card, despite not taking absolutely any of the risk in that operation. Plus a quarterly fee per card. Do you think the banks are going to foot that bill? Of course not: it's us, the consumers. Are you willing to have everything be a bit more expensive, for everyone, so that you, apple users, can have something a tiny bit more convenient?

falcolas 5y ago
Isn't that how any convenience works? Credit cards already increased the price of everything for the convenience of using credit cards, as an example. I'm old enough to remember there was once one price for cash, and another for credit cards.
- josefresco 5y ago
  > I'm old enough to remember there was once one price for cash, and another for credit cards. Some businesses in my town still do this. When I see it, the only thing I think is "they must be committing light tax fraud". Maybe it's wrong, but I know what merchants pay for CC transactions and it doesn't justify the whining from business owners who have been accepting cards for decades and suddenly decided CC transactions were unprofitable because business is slumping /rant.
  - manquer 5y ago
    It is not tax fraud [1]. Merchants are violating the terms of CC provider. The merchant agreement explicitly forbids merchants to have different cash price from what is charge with the card. It is fairly common in geographies where CC providers can't litigate/enforce easily . It is not a penal crime, only a contract violation between two private parties and settled in arbitration/civil courts . [1] Such Merchants also may commit tax fraud if they don't declare the cash income for tax purposes, that however is not directly related to Credit Cards or payment medium and usually even if they do commit tax fraud, they don't pass on their tax benefits for GST/VAT or Income Tax (10+% in most countries) to the customer.
    - commoner 5y ago
      Not sure about other countries, but in the US, the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act (2011) ensures that merchants are allowed to offer cash discounts. > A PCN cannot stop you from offering your customers a discount or another incentive for using a certain method of payment, as long as you offer it to all your customers and disclose the offer clearly and conspicuously. For example, you can offer your customers a discount or a coupon if they pay with cash or a debit card rather than a credit card. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/new-rules-electronic-payments-lower-costs-retailers https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/new...
diebeforei485 5y ago
Correct- it is 0.15% on credit card transactions, or a flat $0.005 per debit card transaction. Stripe (which charges 2.9% + $0.30) is willing to eat this fee, presumably because of the benefits of vastly lower fraudulent transactions and chargebacks.

falcolas 5y ago

Isn't that how any convenience works? Credit cards already increased the price of everything for the convenience of using credit cards, as an example. I'm old enough to remember there was once one price for cash, and another for credit cards.

josefresco 5y ago
> I'm old enough to remember there was once one price for cash, and another for credit cards. Some businesses in my town still do this. When I see it, the only thing I think is "they must be committing light tax fraud". Maybe it's wrong, but I know what merchants pay for CC transactions and it doesn't justify the whining from business owners who have been accepting cards for decades and suddenly decided CC transactions were unprofitable because business is slumping /rant.
- manquer 5y ago
  It is not tax fraud [1]. Merchants are violating the terms of CC provider. The merchant agreement explicitly forbids merchants to have different cash price from what is charge with the card. It is fairly common in geographies where CC providers can't litigate/enforce easily . It is not a penal crime, only a contract violation between two private parties and settled in arbitration/civil courts . [1] Such Merchants also may commit tax fraud if they don't declare the cash income for tax purposes, that however is not directly related to Credit Cards or payment medium and usually even if they do commit tax fraud, they don't pass on their tax benefits for GST/VAT or Income Tax (10+% in most countries) to the customer.
  - commoner 5y ago
    Not sure about other countries, but in the US, the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act (2011) ensures that merchants are allowed to offer cash discounts. > A PCN cannot stop you from offering your customers a discount or another incentive for using a certain method of payment, as long as you offer it to all your customers and disclose the offer clearly and conspicuously. For example, you can offer your customers a discount or a coupon if they pay with cash or a debit card rather than a credit card. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/new-rules-electronic-payments-lower-costs-retailers https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/new...

diebeforei485 5y ago

Correct- it is 0.15% on credit card transactions, or a flat $0.005 per debit card transaction. Stripe (which charges 2.9% + $0.30) is willing to eat this fee, presumably because of the benefits of vastly lower fraudulent transactions and chargebacks.