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> My point is that it should not be something that has to be removed. And it isn't a feature at all if you use any other Chromium based browser (not Chrome) li

> My point is that it should not be something that has to be removed. And it isn't a feature at all if you use any other Chromium based browser (not Chrome) like Brave, Edge or Vivaldi. > Please explain why it's better to use Vivaldi. I didn't say that you should use Vivaldi. Nope. I said that there are plenty of non-Chrome Chromium browsers to use in response to someone saying that there is a "one browser rules all" situation. There's not. There's not even a "one browser-engine to rule them all" situation given that Safari (WebKit) has a very sizable market share. > In complete control of Chromium. Yep and Linus Torvalds is in complete control of the Linux kernel, yet we have hundreds of distros that all do things differently. And it doesn't matter as much as you think it does. Here's Microsoft discussing their decision to not fork Chromium, because they don't have to - "We have chosen not to fork since we don’t want to fragment the community, but our infrastructure does allow us to maintain patches for cases where we have a different point of view on individual changes (we talked about the webRequest/Manifest V3 changes in a couple other places. In general we plan to upstream our web platform improvements to the Chromium project. " [0] [0] https://windowsreport.com/chromiums-edge-fork/ https://windowsreport.com/chromiums-edge-fork/

sodality2 5y ago
>And it isn't a feature at all if you use any other Chromium based browser (not Chrome) like Brave, Edge or Vivaldi. I am referring to the Chromium open source project. Not the derivatives. You can argue that everyone removes it, but that further shows how unwanted it is. >I said that there are plenty of non-Chrome Chromium browsers to use in response to someone saying that there is a "one browser rules all" situation I was actually referring to the engine, yeah. >There's not even a "one browser-engine to rule them all" situation given that Safari (WebKit) has a very sizable market share. Still very small. Less than 20%? Besides, a majority of that is iOS devices, where this engine is FORCED upon you... >Yep and Linus Torvalds is in complete control of the Linux kernel, yet we have hundreds of distros that all do things differently. The difference is the lack of corporate malice, which I classify FLoC under (which was added to Chromium, regardless of whether or not you say others have removed it). >And it doesn't matter as much as you think it does. Here's Microsoft discussing their decision to not fork Chromium, because they don't have to - Not particularly sure what you mean here - this is just showing that edge is also contributing to the browser monoculture by still using Chromium and not even forking it. Though I suppose that's a little weak argument because patches are still applied.
- wayneftw 5y ago
  > I am referring to the Chromium open source project. Not the derivatives. You can argue that everyone removes it, but that further shows how unwanted it is. Nobody is disagreeing that FLoC is unwanted though. It's a completely irrelevant point. There is no browser monoculture and there is no browser-engine monoculture. We've mentioned 3 engines and at least 5 browsers here. You're arguing that Google is in complete control of Chromium as if that means anything, when every Chromium based browser is not simply dancing to Google's tune. > Still very small. Less than 20%? More than Firefox and it absolutely defies your point that there is a monoculture. There is not. > The difference is the lack of corporate malice... Yeah it's so malicious that you can turn it right off if you wish to or just use a different browser seeing as how there is no monoculture. > Not particularly sure what you mean here - this is just showing that edge is also contributing to the browser monoculture... You keep using that word but I don't think you know what it actually means. There simply is no monoculture, not in browsers and not in browser engines. Sorry to break it to ya, but you're completely wrong on that point and no amount of illogical rationalization will make it true.
  - sodality2 5y ago
    I'd consider 70%+ market share a monoculture especially when you consider that it's significantly higher on PC. Edge, the default, now uses the Chromium engine. That right there is probably 95% of people. Why do you not think that's a monoculture when I regularly encounter devs who don't bother checking ANYTHING with Firefox?
    - wayneftw 5y ago
      > I'd consider 70%+ market share a monoculture...Why do you not think that's a monoculture...? And you'd still be wrong. First, because of the definition of the word "monoculture" [0] and secondly because Chrome is only at about 65% [1]. > when I regularly encounter devs who don't bother checking ANYTHING with Firefox? Sounds about right. I'm one of them and I look forward to Firefox and Mozilla just up and disappearing one day because honestly, it's a dumpster fire of a browser and the culture at Mozilla is simply detestable. [0] "the cultivation of a SINGLE crop in a given area" [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share#monthly-202105-202105-bar https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share#monthly-2021...

sodality2 5y ago

>And it isn't a feature at all if you use any other Chromium based browser (not Chrome) like Brave, Edge or Vivaldi. I am referring to the Chromium open source project. Not the derivatives. You can argue that everyone removes it, but that further shows how unwanted it is. >I said that there are plenty of non-Chrome Chromium browsers to use in response to someone saying that there is a "one browser rules all" situation I was actually referring to the engine, yeah. >There's not even a "one browser-engine to rule them all" situation given that Safari (WebKit) has a very sizable market share. Still very small. Less than 20%? Besides, a majority of that is iOS devices, where this engine is FORCED upon you... >Yep and Linus Torvalds is in complete control of the Linux kernel, yet we have hundreds of distros that all do things differently. The difference is the lack of corporate malice, which I classify FLoC under (which was added to Chromium, regardless of whether or not you say others have removed it). >And it doesn't matter as much as you think it does. Here's Microsoft discussing their decision to not fork Chromium, because they don't have to - Not particularly sure what you mean here - this is just showing that edge is also contributing to the browser monoculture by still using Chromium and not even forking it. Though I suppose that's a little weak argument because patches are still applied.

wayneftw 5y ago
> I am referring to the Chromium open source project. Not the derivatives. You can argue that everyone removes it, but that further shows how unwanted it is. Nobody is disagreeing that FLoC is unwanted though. It's a completely irrelevant point. There is no browser monoculture and there is no browser-engine monoculture. We've mentioned 3 engines and at least 5 browsers here. You're arguing that Google is in complete control of Chromium as if that means anything, when every Chromium based browser is not simply dancing to Google's tune. > Still very small. Less than 20%? More than Firefox and it absolutely defies your point that there is a monoculture. There is not. > The difference is the lack of corporate malice... Yeah it's so malicious that you can turn it right off if you wish to or just use a different browser seeing as how there is no monoculture. > Not particularly sure what you mean here - this is just showing that edge is also contributing to the browser monoculture... You keep using that word but I don't think you know what it actually means. There simply is no monoculture, not in browsers and not in browser engines. Sorry to break it to ya, but you're completely wrong on that point and no amount of illogical rationalization will make it true.
- sodality2 5y ago
  I'd consider 70%+ market share a monoculture especially when you consider that it's significantly higher on PC. Edge, the default, now uses the Chromium engine. That right there is probably 95% of people. Why do you not think that's a monoculture when I regularly encounter devs who don't bother checking ANYTHING with Firefox?
  - wayneftw 5y ago
    > I'd consider 70%+ market share a monoculture...Why do you not think that's a monoculture...? And you'd still be wrong. First, because of the definition of the word "monoculture" [0] and secondly because Chrome is only at about 65% [1]. > when I regularly encounter devs who don't bother checking ANYTHING with Firefox? Sounds about right. I'm one of them and I look forward to Firefox and Mozilla just up and disappearing one day because honestly, it's a dumpster fire of a browser and the culture at Mozilla is simply detestable. [0] "the cultivation of a SINGLE crop in a given area" [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share#monthly-202105-202105-bar https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share#monthly-2021...