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Is there evidence that the average hacker is smarter than the average developer? I would expect the opposite to be true because legitimate work seems more profi

Is there evidence that the average hacker is smarter than the average developer? I would expect the opposite to be true because legitimate work seems more profitable/stable, but also I'd imagine the difference is t that high either way

dennisnedry 5y ago
Of course not, this is just the parent poster's opinion. The truth of the matter is that there exceptional individuals who decide to get into software development and software security. The problem with software is that often companies don't invest into securing their software, and that has to be a priority. Perhaps having the SEC force fines for not securing mission critical software is the first step?
datameta 5y ago
I think the incentives are lopsided. The developer does not personally bear the blow of their company's data breach (unless they're dedicated cybersec personnel) whereas the hacker reaps all the reward of getting access.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
IncRnd 5y ago
The parent never used the word "smarter". By definition, the average developer is developing applications, but the non-average developer is doing something else, possibly hacking. Hacking is not the average activity (the way that word is used today). With regards to skill sets, I have repeatedly found that people who engage in hacking range from skill sets of "knowing how to use a hacking kit" to "uber developer with security knowledge". There is a wide range of skills and knowledge. However, it is practically an entry requirement for someone in the security space to view software differently than most programmers. That is defined as non-average.
- fragmede 5y ago
  They didn't say smarter but they did say above-the-average which implies better (as opposed to worse), rather than it being a different skill set. That is to say, I know exceptional "hackers" who can't code their way out of a pair bag, or build any sort of GUI. Similarly, I know some really good programmers who don't intimately understand how computers work a tenth as well as hackers do. There are genuinely smart people in both camps, but they're different skill sets.
csbartus 5y ago
I remember after finishing our CS studies we were taken by the Army to take a day long test. We were warned better fail the test unless we are willing to be enrolled. However this might be an isolated case. In turn, I guess a security professional is more scarce than an average developer. The question is if all security professionals are hired to strenghten systems, or some of them to break it.
- fragmede 5y ago
  Yes, large engagements frequently include a "red team" who's job it is to try and break into the system.
csours 5y ago
I used to think this way, it can be really dangerous to assume level of intelligence from background information. More to the point, hackers can be very motivated to break things in a way that the average developer is not motivated to secure them.
- datavirtue 5y ago
  You hit it. Cracking a system that has mountains of attack vectors is interesting, fun, and potentially profitable. There is so much to probe and try. Flip it around and look at the priorities of software developers Ina corporate setting. Most of them are so sick of dealing with security hoops and theatre it's the last thing they want to think about.

dennisnedry 5y ago

Of course not, this is just the parent poster's opinion. The truth of the matter is that there exceptional individuals who decide to get into software development and software security. The problem with software is that often companies don't invest into securing their software, and that has to be a priority. Perhaps having the SEC force fines for not securing mission critical software is the first step?

datameta 5y ago

I think the incentives are lopsided. The developer does not personally bear the blow of their company's data breach (unless they're dedicated cybersec personnel) whereas the hacker reaps all the reward of getting access.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

IncRnd 5y ago

The parent never used the word "smarter". By definition, the average developer is developing applications, but the non-average developer is doing something else, possibly hacking. Hacking is not the average activity (the way that word is used today). With regards to skill sets, I have repeatedly found that people who engage in hacking range from skill sets of "knowing how to use a hacking kit" to "uber developer with security knowledge". There is a wide range of skills and knowledge. However, it is practically an entry requirement for someone in the security space to view software differently than most programmers. That is defined as non-average.

fragmede 5y ago
They didn't say smarter but they did say above-the-average which implies better (as opposed to worse), rather than it being a different skill set. That is to say, I know exceptional "hackers" who can't code their way out of a pair bag, or build any sort of GUI. Similarly, I know some really good programmers who don't intimately understand how computers work a tenth as well as hackers do. There are genuinely smart people in both camps, but they're different skill sets.

csbartus 5y ago

I remember after finishing our CS studies we were taken by the Army to take a day long test. We were warned better fail the test unless we are willing to be enrolled. However this might be an isolated case. In turn, I guess a security professional is more scarce than an average developer. The question is if all security professionals are hired to strenghten systems, or some of them to break it.

fragmede 5y ago
Yes, large engagements frequently include a "red team" who's job it is to try and break into the system.

csours 5y ago

I used to think this way, it can be really dangerous to assume level of intelligence from background information. More to the point, hackers can be very motivated to break things in a way that the average developer is not motivated to secure them.

datavirtue 5y ago
You hit it. Cracking a system that has mountains of attack vectors is interesting, fun, and potentially profitable. There is so much to probe and try. Flip it around and look at the priorities of software developers Ina corporate setting. Most of them are so sick of dealing with security hoops and theatre it's the last thing they want to think about.