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The open-office concept was designed by executives who have their own private offices. As an introvert, working in an open office was a daily struggle for me.

The open-office concept was designed by executives who have their own private offices. As an introvert, working in an open office was a daily struggle for me. I have never worked in a private office before the pandemic, and I have seen the tremendous shift in productivity. Open offices are particularly disruptive for any activity that requires focus (programming, planning, writing...). I am glad that we have more choices now of companies that would hire people remote or work in hybrid mode.

noir_lord 5y ago
Same (introvert). I switched back to WFH last year (permanently) and it's been amazing.
johnchristopher 5y ago
I am not an introvert (per the general common definition) but I don't work well with others around me, they are too distracting even if no one says anything or move. The presence of other human beings around is enough to distract me and feel self-conscious (edit: which is only a problem when I want to concentrate at work).
- dimitrios1 5y ago
  yeah.. I don't even do well when my wife walks around behind me while I am working, and she's my wife! Usually just wait until returns to her office desk. It's just something innate in me, I don't know what it is. I know some people (very small minority) have the ability to get into flow no matter the situation, but I don't.
  - cylon13 5y ago
    I have the same thing and I think it’s because there’s a chance she might interact with you, which is enough to prevent you from getting 100% focused. Just having someone close enough that there’s a chance they will distract me is enough for me to feel mildly distracted by that possibility.
    - piva00 5y ago
      I'm the same. The mere presence of someone that I might interact with throws me off. I worry that I'll have to interact so block myself from focusing on the off-chance I'll be thrown out of focus. It's fucking exhausting sometimes...
- cheschire 5y ago
  Per Myers-Briggs, I am an extrovert. People exhaust me though because I feel an obligation to engage them. A subconscious need to interact with someone walking by. And I pick up on every single noise that occurs around me wondering if someone needs help or would benefit from a bit of information I have that they need. And yet I've learned even if I have information they are seeking, they often don't want or appreciate me sharing the information if it comes off slightly wrong, so I have to tip toe through the process of delivering them the information in a way that doesn't come off as patronizing, only supportive and at the same time belittling myself or making the situation seem like it was only luck that I was exposed to this information so as to not seem like a know-it-all. It's exhausting. This is barely scratching the surface of why I dislike full time office work. And yet I need at least part time office work. I feel lost and out of touch without it. edit: and wow apparently I'm not the only one.
  - loopz 5y ago
    Have you considered that you may be sensitive? Most people don't give a fuck, but you do? If so, there's only one route: Start ignoring people. Don't offer advice until asked for. Never give full answers, only pointers. You'll be doing others, and yourself, a big favour. It won't clear all distractions, but it'll start you on focusing on yourself rather than others. When people come to you, they'll be ready for an answer, you'll be more appreciated and have more capacity left to provide more clarity. Took 10 years to get anywhere, so have patience and be kind.
- tombert 5y ago
  I feel like open offices are bad for me because I'm not an introvert. I generally try and be friendly with my coworkers, which I think is not really a "bad" thing), but that's a double-edged sword in open offices: if I'm friendly with my coworkers, it's easy to get pulled into their distracting (though generally more interesting than work) conversations, and if I'm a bit introverted, I might be a bit more productive but I also might come off as "snobby" if I'm always just sitting there with noise-canceling headphones for six hours a day.
bodge5000 5y ago
I actually used to really enjoy talking to people in the office and would welcome the distraction, but WFH has been a godsend for me in ways I previously couldn't imagine. Without going into too much detail, offices (or for that matter any place I would return to frequently and where people would know who I am) would murder me with anxiety, resulting in a kind of chest pain which at times, maybe once a week, would be unbearable. Other days it was just painful, but managable. Of course since WFH this has gone, but not only that, it's improved things in those settings where I do sometimes have to return to frequently. I was always told that the more I put myself in that position the better it would get, but it ended up being the opposite. It feels liberating that I don't need to plan for that anymore, whereas it used to be part of my daily life.
q1w2 5y ago
> The open-office concept was designed by executives who have their own private offices. I've seen executives sit on the floor with employees. Whether or not it works depends on whether the type of work requires attention or concentration. Jobs like answering phones, clerical work, mail processing, negotiating/trading, selling, etc... - those are jobs that require attention and can be done in an open setting, and it often increases productivity for people to be working together in an open environment. Jobs that require concentration, like planning, programming, etc... - those are jobs that are better to be done in quiet, without distraction.
staunch 5y ago
> The open-office concept was designed by executives who have their own private offices. Or they technically also use open office desks but spend little of their time at them, and the majority of their time commandeering conference rooms, using executive-only meeting rooms, staying at expensive hotels, resorts for "offsites", working from home, and the like. The few days they spend per year doing non-focused work in an open office environment is probably enjoyable enough, and helps them rationalize torturing everyone else.
reginold 5y ago
Now that you work at home during the pandemic, who pays for your home office?
- ___luigi 5y ago
  Many companies (where I live) provided the option of moving company office (chair, desk, monitor .. etc) to the employees' apartments, and most of these companies pay moving fees as well. I personally have an office already, so I didn't need that. Some other companies [3] gave Cash Bonus to help people. In EU, I have seen different opinions on who should pay for home office. In Germany, some entities pushed to introduce *WFH Tax* for those who work remotely (those who work from home need to pay a fee/tax), you can read more details here [1][2]. In Switzerland, the government asked companies to pay a share of rent for employees working from home[4]. [1]: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/12/deutsche-bank-proposes-a-5percent-tax-for-remote-workers-post-pandemic.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/12/deutsche-bank-proposes-a-5pe... [2]: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54876526 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54876526 [3]: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57750142 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57750142 [4]: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/court-decision_companies-must-pay-share-of-rent-for-employees-working-from-home/45781126 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/court-decision_companies-must-p...
- JohnFen 5y ago
  In the US, if you devote the space entirely to work, you can at least take the fair market value of that space as a tax deduction.
  - tablespoonsruby 5y ago
    Not if you are an employee. https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/small-business-taxes/the-home-office-deduction/L1RZyYxzv https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/small-business-taxes/th...
    - JohnFen 5y ago
      Hmm, that's disappointing.
commandlinefan 5y ago
When I'm tasked with learning something new - like Rust, for example - my inclination is to go pick up a book about it and read it cover to cover, working through the examples as I do. I spent six years of college practicing learning this way - by reading and working through controlled examples - and I'm really good at it. It seems to me that the entire point of college is to sharpen your ability to learn things from reading books and practicing with them. Back in the days before open offices, when I had a cubicle, I would always have a book open about whatever the newer thing I was supposed to be mastering was, and I would alternate between programming and reading: code for a while, read while the thing was compiling or starting up, go back to coding and testing, read some more and work an example, etc. I learned almost everything that I really have true mastery of that way. What I discovered the hard way, when open offices took over, is that seeing somebody reading a book PISSES EVERYBODY OFF. I can't comprehend why, but when people could see that I was reading a book - even a book about Java or XML or web services or whatever happened to be new at that time - they would come over within a few minutes and ask "what are you reading? Why are you reading that? Shouldn't you be programming? Aren't you a programmer? Why aren't you staring at your computer all the time?" Even people that had no business policing my time. So, of necessity, I shifted from reading printed books - which are much better quality and more efficient - to reading online documentation because staring at the monitor all day long, with fingers on the keyboard, is required in an open office, whether the boss is around or not.
- jack_riminton 5y ago
  I swear the same thing happened to anyone in an open plan office I used to work at for anyone who was clearly concentrating! I was a PM at the time and was working through some quite complex stuff, but any time someone caught me looking engrossed they'd come over to ask me what I was doing that looked so complicated. In the end I went the other way and got large bits of paper so I could at least mind-map without anyone feeling the need to interrupt
- mindentropy 5y ago
  Are you me? I used to do the same thing i.e. read books cover to cover and I still do. I still used to bring books very recently and as you said people get pissed off. There are other curious and rude people who would pick my book and think that I am acting superior or something. Very irritating. Now I got tired of this and switched to Kindle and go through the book on Kindle web app. Curiously staring at my mobile screen does not evoke such response.
dionidium 5y ago
> As an introvert, working in an open office was a daily struggle for me. Pair programming ratchets this up times 1000. Maybe it's the most productive way of working ever invented. I don't care. As long as I have the option of working for companies that don't do it, then I'm not going to do it. I think it died as a concept because of just how awful the experience is. Emotionally, it's like doing a week's worth of work in an hour. Totally draining.
- jack_riminton 5y ago
  I attended a bootcamp that learned through pair programming and it was one of the most stressful times of my life (and I'm a veteran who served in Afghanistan!) It's almost like there are two parts of my brain that are mutually exclusive; understanding abstract concepts and communicating, pick one!
ThePadawan 5y ago
I'm going to give the one executive credit who I worked for and who also just worked in the open plan office. ...OK now that's the credit has been given: I have never seen him actually work at that workplace. He spent 10 minutes between meetings there 6 times a day, and that's it.
muttled 5y ago
It's the cheapest, easiest option. Of course it's going to be the default. Anything they say about interdepartmental communication is secondary to the reality of saving a bunch of money just cramming desks into an empty space.
GuB-42 5y ago
> As an introvert I wonder if it is not actually harder for extroverts. I don't really have a problem with open offices, if I want to focus, I just ignore what happens around me, as if other people didn't exist. It is only annoying when they deliberately interrupt me, but it can also happen in closed offices (knocking on doors, phone calls, etc...). I guess it may be harder for extroverts to focus because they are actually attracted to people around them. In the same way that may be easier to work when the weather is terrible because it doesn't feel like you would be better outside.

noir_lord 5y ago

Same (introvert). I switched back to WFH last year (permanently) and it's been amazing.

johnchristopher 5y ago

I am not an introvert (per the general common definition) but I don't work well with others around me, they are too distracting even if no one says anything or move. The presence of other human beings around is enough to distract me and feel self-conscious (edit: which is only a problem when I want to concentrate at work).

dimitrios1 5y ago
yeah.. I don't even do well when my wife walks around behind me while I am working, and she's my wife! Usually just wait until returns to her office desk. It's just something innate in me, I don't know what it is. I know some people (very small minority) have the ability to get into flow no matter the situation, but I don't.
- cylon13 5y ago
  I have the same thing and I think it’s because there’s a chance she might interact with you, which is enough to prevent you from getting 100% focused. Just having someone close enough that there’s a chance they will distract me is enough for me to feel mildly distracted by that possibility.
  - piva00 5y ago
    I'm the same. The mere presence of someone that I might interact with throws me off. I worry that I'll have to interact so block myself from focusing on the off-chance I'll be thrown out of focus. It's fucking exhausting sometimes...
cheschire 5y ago
Per Myers-Briggs, I am an extrovert. People exhaust me though because I feel an obligation to engage them. A subconscious need to interact with someone walking by. And I pick up on every single noise that occurs around me wondering if someone needs help or would benefit from a bit of information I have that they need. And yet I've learned even if I have information they are seeking, they often don't want or appreciate me sharing the information if it comes off slightly wrong, so I have to tip toe through the process of delivering them the information in a way that doesn't come off as patronizing, only supportive and at the same time belittling myself or making the situation seem like it was only luck that I was exposed to this information so as to not seem like a know-it-all. It's exhausting. This is barely scratching the surface of why I dislike full time office work. And yet I need at least part time office work. I feel lost and out of touch without it. edit: and wow apparently I'm not the only one.
- loopz 5y ago
  Have you considered that you may be sensitive? Most people don't give a fuck, but you do? If so, there's only one route: Start ignoring people. Don't offer advice until asked for. Never give full answers, only pointers. You'll be doing others, and yourself, a big favour. It won't clear all distractions, but it'll start you on focusing on yourself rather than others. When people come to you, they'll be ready for an answer, you'll be more appreciated and have more capacity left to provide more clarity. Took 10 years to get anywhere, so have patience and be kind.
tombert 5y ago
I feel like open offices are bad for me because I'm not an introvert. I generally try and be friendly with my coworkers, which I think is not really a "bad" thing), but that's a double-edged sword in open offices: if I'm friendly with my coworkers, it's easy to get pulled into their distracting (though generally more interesting than work) conversations, and if I'm a bit introverted, I might be a bit more productive but I also might come off as "snobby" if I'm always just sitting there with noise-canceling headphones for six hours a day.

bodge5000 5y ago

I actually used to really enjoy talking to people in the office and would welcome the distraction, but WFH has been a godsend for me in ways I previously couldn't imagine. Without going into too much detail, offices (or for that matter any place I would return to frequently and where people would know who I am) would murder me with anxiety, resulting in a kind of chest pain which at times, maybe once a week, would be unbearable. Other days it was just painful, but managable. Of course since WFH this has gone, but not only that, it's improved things in those settings where I do sometimes have to return to frequently. I was always told that the more I put myself in that position the better it would get, but it ended up being the opposite. It feels liberating that I don't need to plan for that anymore, whereas it used to be part of my daily life.

q1w2 5y ago

> The open-office concept was designed by executives who have their own private offices. I've seen executives sit on the floor with employees. Whether or not it works depends on whether the type of work requires attention or concentration. Jobs like answering phones, clerical work, mail processing, negotiating/trading, selling, etc... - those are jobs that require attention and can be done in an open setting, and it often increases productivity for people to be working together in an open environment. Jobs that require concentration, like planning, programming, etc... - those are jobs that are better to be done in quiet, without distraction.

staunch 5y ago

> The open-office concept was designed by executives who have their own private offices. Or they technically also use open office desks but spend little of their time at them, and the majority of their time commandeering conference rooms, using executive-only meeting rooms, staying at expensive hotels, resorts for "offsites", working from home, and the like. The few days they spend per year doing non-focused work in an open office environment is probably enjoyable enough, and helps them rationalize torturing everyone else.

reginold 5y ago

Now that you work at home during the pandemic, who pays for your home office?

___luigi 5y ago
Many companies (where I live) provided the option of moving company office (chair, desk, monitor .. etc) to the employees' apartments, and most of these companies pay moving fees as well. I personally have an office already, so I didn't need that. Some other companies [3] gave Cash Bonus to help people. In EU, I have seen different opinions on who should pay for home office. In Germany, some entities pushed to introduce *WFH Tax* for those who work remotely (those who work from home need to pay a fee/tax), you can read more details here [1][2]. In Switzerland, the government asked companies to pay a share of rent for employees working from home[4]. [1]: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/12/deutsche-bank-proposes-a-5percent-tax-for-remote-workers-post-pandemic.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/12/deutsche-bank-proposes-a-5pe... [2]: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54876526 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54876526 [3]: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57750142 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57750142 [4]: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/court-decision_companies-must-pay-share-of-rent-for-employees-working-from-home/45781126 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/court-decision_companies-must-p...
JohnFen 5y ago
In the US, if you devote the space entirely to work, you can at least take the fair market value of that space as a tax deduction.
- tablespoonsruby 5y ago
  Not if you are an employee. https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/small-business-taxes/the-home-office-deduction/L1RZyYxzv https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/small-business-taxes/th...
  - JohnFen 5y ago
    Hmm, that's disappointing.

commandlinefan 5y ago

When I'm tasked with learning something new - like Rust, for example - my inclination is to go pick up a book about it and read it cover to cover, working through the examples as I do. I spent six years of college practicing learning this way - by reading and working through controlled examples - and I'm really good at it. It seems to me that the entire point of college is to sharpen your ability to learn things from reading books and practicing with them. Back in the days before open offices, when I had a cubicle, I would always have a book open about whatever the newer thing I was supposed to be mastering was, and I would alternate between programming and reading: code for a while, read while the thing was compiling or starting up, go back to coding and testing, read some more and work an example, etc. I learned almost everything that I really have true mastery of that way. What I discovered the hard way, when open offices took over, is that seeing somebody reading a book PISSES EVERYBODY OFF. I can't comprehend why, but when people could see that I was reading a book - even a book about Java or XML or web services or whatever happened to be new at that time - they would come over within a few minutes and ask "what are you reading? Why are you reading that? Shouldn't you be programming? Aren't you a programmer? Why aren't you staring at your computer all the time?" Even people that had no business policing my time. So, of necessity, I shifted from reading printed books - which are much better quality and more efficient - to reading online documentation because staring at the monitor all day long, with fingers on the keyboard, is required in an open office, whether the boss is around or not.

jack_riminton 5y ago
I swear the same thing happened to anyone in an open plan office I used to work at for anyone who was clearly concentrating! I was a PM at the time and was working through some quite complex stuff, but any time someone caught me looking engrossed they'd come over to ask me what I was doing that looked so complicated. In the end I went the other way and got large bits of paper so I could at least mind-map without anyone feeling the need to interrupt
mindentropy 5y ago
Are you me? I used to do the same thing i.e. read books cover to cover and I still do. I still used to bring books very recently and as you said people get pissed off. There are other curious and rude people who would pick my book and think that I am acting superior or something. Very irritating. Now I got tired of this and switched to Kindle and go through the book on Kindle web app. Curiously staring at my mobile screen does not evoke such response.

dionidium 5y ago

> As an introvert, working in an open office was a daily struggle for me. Pair programming ratchets this up times 1000. Maybe it's the most productive way of working ever invented. I don't care. As long as I have the option of working for companies that don't do it, then I'm not going to do it. I think it died as a concept because of just how awful the experience is. Emotionally, it's like doing a week's worth of work in an hour. Totally draining.

jack_riminton 5y ago
I attended a bootcamp that learned through pair programming and it was one of the most stressful times of my life (and I'm a veteran who served in Afghanistan!) It's almost like there are two parts of my brain that are mutually exclusive; understanding abstract concepts and communicating, pick one!

ThePadawan 5y ago

I'm going to give the one executive credit who I worked for and who also just worked in the open plan office. ...OK now that's the credit has been given: I have never seen him actually work at that workplace. He spent 10 minutes between meetings there 6 times a day, and that's it.

muttled 5y ago

It's the cheapest, easiest option. Of course it's going to be the default. Anything they say about interdepartmental communication is secondary to the reality of saving a bunch of money just cramming desks into an empty space.

GuB-42 5y ago

> As an introvert I wonder if it is not actually harder for extroverts. I don't really have a problem with open offices, if I want to focus, I just ignore what happens around me, as if other people didn't exist. It is only annoying when they deliberately interrupt me, but it can also happen in closed offices (knocking on doors, phone calls, etc...). I guess it may be harder for extroverts to focus because they are actually attracted to people around them. In the same way that may be easier to work when the weather is terrible because it doesn't feel like you would be better outside.