6 ms·

And what about unknown long-haul effects from newly developed vaccines? Are we permitted to be concerned about those?

slenk 5y ago
At this point, long term side effects would be known about: "History tells us that severe side effects are extremely rare, and if they do occur, they usually happen within the first two months" https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19...
- disneygibson 5y ago
  So we can know the long term effects of a novel vaccine but we can’t know the long term effects of COVID? How does that make any sense? Don’t you think it’s more reasonable to assume we don’t know either?
  - slenk 5y ago
    Maybe? We have been studying vaccines and how they work since the 1800s...we have a lot more history with vaccines and how they work compared to a Coronavirus. And two of the available vaccines don't even give you a dead infection like most vaccines - you can't get COVID from the COVID shot (Moderna or Pfizer)
    - disneygibson 5y ago
      If it’s a new vaccine unlike most others, doesn’t that imply that historical information is not as relevant as it would be otherwise?
      - slenk 5y ago
        What about some of the people that have been vaccinated almost a year and a half with no side effects? Does that evidence count?
        disneygibson 5y ago
        That would count if our question was “What are the likely side effects after one year?” But it’s not. The question is long term side effects. Unless you have a time machine, I’m gonna say we can’t know those for quite a bit - unlike other vaccines which have decades of testing data.
        ImPostingOnHN 5y ago
        I haven't seen any reason to believe that longER-term side effects will differ significantly from the small amount of side effects we've already seen in the long period of time since the first vaccinations obviously we can't just wait forever with the worry that in year forever+1 some random side effect completely different from what the evidence currently indicates will manifest itself
        disneygibson 5y ago
        So you think that all side effects of substances are either noticeable in the first year or not at all? Have you heard of DDT?
        ImPostingOnHN 5y ago
        I must have missed the study that showed the long-term side effects of the vaccine were determined by the long-term side effects of DDT if you would be so kind as to link it here...
        disneygibson 5y ago
        This really isn’t hard to understand. In the past, some substances were thought to be safe, but turned out not to be. The “it’s safe” period of time was longer than a year. Ergo it is reasonable to assume that we can’t know all of the side effects of current novel vaccines. It doesn’t mean there will be any, but it doesn’t mean there won’t be either. That’s how science works.
  - kbos87 5y ago
    Yes, it’s called looking at past evidence. No past vaccines have presented unknown side effects more than 8-10 weeks out. Viruses regularly do damage we don’t see or understand until many years later.
- a_conservative 5y ago
  History can tell us about historical vaccines, not new ones, especially mRNA vaccines.
  - tomrod 5y ago
    J&J still has EUA, right?
tomrod 5y ago
Of course we are. The long haul effects of COVID are partially known and are super bad. The expected long haul effects of the vaccine are pretty well known (J&J, AZ) or use well understood pathways (Pfizer, Moderna).
- xyzzy21 5y ago
  We largely know what causes Long Haul COVID - it's depletion and interference with vitamin B metabolic pathways.
  - tomrod 5y ago
    Interesting. Source? And is it reversible?
- halfjoking 5y ago
  I had longcovid for 14 months and was active in the community. Something I saw regularly was people claiming the vaccines CAUSED their longcovid. They made their own subreddit for it: https://old.reddit.com/r/vaccinelonghaulers/ https://old.reddit.com/r/vaccinelonghaulers/ So I don't agree the effects of either are well understood.

At this point, long term side effects would be known about: "History tells us that severe side effects are extremely rare, and if they do occur, they usually happen within the first two months" https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19...

disneygibson 5y ago
So we can know the long term effects of a novel vaccine but we can’t know the long term effects of COVID? How does that make any sense? Don’t you think it’s more reasonable to assume we don’t know either?
- slenk 5y ago
  Maybe? We have been studying vaccines and how they work since the 1800s...we have a lot more history with vaccines and how they work compared to a Coronavirus. And two of the available vaccines don't even give you a dead infection like most vaccines - you can't get COVID from the COVID shot (Moderna or Pfizer)
  - disneygibson 5y ago
    If it’s a new vaccine unlike most others, doesn’t that imply that historical information is not as relevant as it would be otherwise?
    - slenk 5y ago
      What about some of the people that have been vaccinated almost a year and a half with no side effects? Does that evidence count?
      - disneygibson 5y ago
        That would count if our question was “What are the likely side effects after one year?” But it’s not. The question is long term side effects. Unless you have a time machine, I’m gonna say we can’t know those for quite a bit - unlike other vaccines which have decades of testing data.
        ImPostingOnHN 5y ago
        I haven't seen any reason to believe that longER-term side effects will differ significantly from the small amount of side effects we've already seen in the long period of time since the first vaccinations obviously we can't just wait forever with the worry that in year forever+1 some random side effect completely different from what the evidence currently indicates will manifest itself
        disneygibson 5y ago
        So you think that all side effects of substances are either noticeable in the first year or not at all? Have you heard of DDT?
        ImPostingOnHN 5y ago
        I must have missed the study that showed the long-term side effects of the vaccine were determined by the long-term side effects of DDT if you would be so kind as to link it here...
        disneygibson 5y ago
        This really isn’t hard to understand. In the past, some substances were thought to be safe, but turned out not to be. The “it’s safe” period of time was longer than a year. Ergo it is reasonable to assume that we can’t know all of the side effects of current novel vaccines. It doesn’t mean there will be any, but it doesn’t mean there won’t be either. That’s how science works.
- kbos87 5y ago
  Yes, it’s called looking at past evidence. No past vaccines have presented unknown side effects more than 8-10 weeks out. Viruses regularly do damage we don’t see or understand until many years later.
a_conservative 5y ago
History can tell us about historical vaccines, not new ones, especially mRNA vaccines.
- tomrod 5y ago
  J&J still has EUA, right?

tomrod 5y ago

Of course we are. The long haul effects of COVID are partially known and are super bad. The expected long haul effects of the vaccine are pretty well known (J&J, AZ) or use well understood pathways (Pfizer, Moderna).

xyzzy21 5y ago
We largely know what causes Long Haul COVID - it's depletion and interference with vitamin B metabolic pathways.
- tomrod 5y ago
  Interesting. Source? And is it reversible?
halfjoking 5y ago
I had longcovid for 14 months and was active in the community. Something I saw regularly was people claiming the vaccines CAUSED their longcovid. They made their own subreddit for it: https://old.reddit.com/r/vaccinelonghaulers/ https://old.reddit.com/r/vaccinelonghaulers/ So I don't agree the effects of either are well understood.