6 ms·

It's been six years since I even had a cubicle. Most offices I've worked in since then had us in barrierless rooms, often kind of cramped, with just enough spac

by dhosek 5y ago

It's been six years since I even had a cubicle. Most offices I've worked in since then had us in barrierless rooms, often kind of cramped, with just enough space for a computer and monitor. Look past your monitor and you see a co-worker. Stretch your arms and you hit a co-worker. In 30 years of working life, I've experienced a variety of working environments. I've had private offices at two companies I've worked at (ISI and Telegenics), mostly cubes, some places having strict hierarchical rules about cubical size (at my first job employees got their own 6x6 cube, contractors had to share a 12x6 cube with another contractor). One company had me literally working at a table in the cafeteria. But what I've noticed is that workspaces are shrinking and privacy is disappearing. My last in-office position didn't even have permanently assigned workspaces—in fact there was a mandatory remote day for my group because there were more employees than desk spaces (the status hierarchy still remained, but now it was defined in terms of private storage space: employees got a lockable lateral file drawer, contractors got a 12x12x12 locker which was supposed to be vacated at day's end. I've spent all of 30 minutes in my current employer's office on a day when the only other person there was the HR person checking my documentation. It looks a little better, but not much.

MattGaiser 5y ago
Thinking of going full remote? That seems dismal.
- Steltek 5y ago
  I figure remote work will eliminate cubes for engineers regardless. Like many companies, internal surveys show a lot of people preferring perma WFH. With so much empty space, why build out cube farms for the few people that are left in the office? Private offices would be yet another amenity touted by the company. Personally, I really want to be back in my company's open office plan of tiny cubes. I don't have a strong preference for cube or office, I just liked my healthy commute and being in a bustling downtown.
  - dleslie 5y ago
    Office space is crazy expensive; the small and medium size shops will see the benefit of closing the office entirely because it amounts to being able to hire another employee or two, in most cities.
    - elzbardico 5y ago
      It won’t be crazy expensive soon if the remote trends continue. In some cities probably we will see office space being converted into housing. Which, along with remote work, is a good thing on my book.
      - pseudalopex 5y ago
        Converting office buildings into housing is incredibly expensive according to everything I've read. Plumbing is inadequate. HVAC is designed for central control of large uniform spaces.
        JohnFen 5y ago
        This conversion has been done with three buildings in my area (that I know of), as well as with two schools that have closed. It is expensive, yes -- but it's still cheaper than building something new as long as the building is in good shape. But now that I think of it, all five of those buildings were converted into high-end, expensive apartments. Perhaps that's how they cover the cost of conversion?
        elzbardico 5y ago
        I can't really believe that there isn't a lot of regulatory capture, nimbyism and general bureaucratic idiocy behind this. Yes, some buildings are going to be harder, specially newer ones, but it is no like we allow partitions in offices to be built with asbestos.
- dleslie 5y ago
  I've been fully remote for six years, and intend never to work in an office again. I'm not sure what's dismal about it? I'm sure you've heard all the arguments for it, but apropos this thread, I feel less like corporate chattel and more like a valued team member. I'm not hurried into stockade-like work environments, cowering under the whims of the bosses, jostling shoulders in a cramped desk corral; I'm working in a space of my own design and in an environment that I control.
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    I was referring to being packed into an ever more crowded and open office as dismal. I am team remote too.
    - dleslie 5y ago
      Ah, I misunderstood.
headmelted 5y ago
Looking at the article I'm not sure what's with the choice of photograph at the top. I've never once had a problem with open plan. I can talk with people or not. It's easy to communicate when needs be, and I can put headphones on when I want to not be interrupted. What I have been bothered by is the idea of someone staring over my shoulder whenever they feel like it while I'm at work. It's creepy, it's invasive, and having a glass panel surrounding the office seems like the worst of all worlds. I get that the caption says it isn't creepy. It is creepy. You're completely cut off from everyone else but anyone that feels like it can easily spy on what you're doing all day while you work. This is why so many people don't ever want to return to an office. It's not just the commute. There are so many subtle little negatives that add up and companies don't even want to acknowledge it.
- gkop 5y ago
  A compromise that I’ve found to make open floor plans work for me, is L-shaped desks. I don’t need a cubicle, but an L-shaped desk gives me the personal space that lets me focus. Unfortunately in my experience, companies are more interested in saving money by cramming us in, than providing a healthy environment to get work done, and L-shaped desks are rare.
  - jack_riminton 5y ago
    I think there's something about having distractions in your peripheral vision which speaks to this. Personal space is also a very cultural thing. People in Norway will feel a lot more uncomfortable with a person standing near to them than somewhere say like South America
    - hackingforfun 5y ago
      > I think there's something about having distractions in your peripheral vision which speaks to this. That's exactly what I never liked about open office plans.
- michaelcampbell 5y ago
  > I can put headphones on when I want to not be interrupted. See: "workaround"
Clubber 5y ago
Back in the 90s, a very large company you've heard of had all their development contractors in cubes with the call center. Headphones to block out the sound were pretty much required to get things done. Me and a college were assigned to a cramped broom closet. We had the best seats because at least we could close the door.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  > were assigned to a cramped broom closet. > We had the best seats I am going to send this particular comment to anyone who wonders why workers do not want to go back in.
- topkai22 5y ago
  I was a contractor to another very large tech company. They were better and tried to give each employee a private office, but were out of space. Employees were doubled up, but they put 8-10 contractors into a converted executive corner office. I was one of them. Then all the other contractors rolled off and they kind of forgot about me for a couple of month, so I, the most junior of junior devs, ended up with a giant corner private office all to myself. After I went full time with the company and asked if I could keep the office. They said no :)
  - hbogert 5y ago
    Reminds me of being a msc student. We got a "lab" environment which was just a couple of tables, the lab part was bringing your own laptop, because computer science. PhD candidates came in on hot summer days being pretty jealous, as our room used to be the serverroom, i.e., the only room with working airconditioning.
- devchix 5y ago
  Early 2000s, me and two others, all working for major US-multinational companies you've all heard of, were onsite for one major US customer. We were all shoved into one cube, ONE. I used to joke that if the cube was any smaller it would have been fornication. Three laptops, gears, writing implements, three chairs. There was one power strip and one desk phone. This went on for probably 5 months. We were all polite, agreeable people so nobody came out with lasting damages.
donatj 5y ago
My friend works for a major manufacturer who switched a few years ago to a similar setup where desks are all unassigned and workers have a locker. He travels between offices very often and apparently there are essentially unwritten “assigned” seats, and has had people end up really angry and go off on him for taking their seat unknowingly while traveling to unfamiliar offices. It really seems like it serves to brew discontent with your people. I can’t imagine the benefits outweigh the downsides, particularly the non-obvious ones like above. I couldn’t work for such a place. I work best when I nest, surrounded by comfort. Photos of my wife, plushies, etc. The general feeling that I have some control over my life however thin. I have thankfully always had a cube, even if my current cube is relatively tiny.
- jhickok 5y ago
  >I couldn’t work for such a place. I work best when I nest, surrounded by comfort. Photos of my wife, plushies, etc. The general feeling that I have some control over my life however thin. I have thankfully always had a cube, even if my current cube is relatively tiny. The ability to personalize your space makes work just a little bit easier. Otherwise I feel like a literal cog in a machine.
  - loonster 5y ago
    I need to bring in my own chair. It makes a significant difference.
    - donatj 5y ago
      I was having pretty significant back pain when I worked for a very small company and decided to buy a chair with fancy adjustable lumbar support. It's 15 years later and I have brought my own chair to every office I've ever worked in.
    - EsotericAlgo 5y ago
      I had a coworker a couple years ago who brought in his own chair (a Herman Miller Aeron). When we came in after a weekend it had been removed and replaced with a cheap, office special that was the default in the cubicles. After a couple days he found it. The facilities manager had moved it into a VPs office because it was an “executive” chair. He had to go through a couple levels of approval, a meeting, and get the chair tagged in order to keep it. Dystopian.
macNchz 5y ago
> It's been six years since I even had a cubicle. Most offices I've worked in since then had us in barrierless rooms, often kind of cramped, with just enough space for a computer and monitor. Look past your monitor and you see a co-worker. Stretch your arms and you hit a co-worker. I've worked in this setup for 10 years or so and the last 18 months of working from home has radicalized me against it. It's honestly kind of extraordinary how much better I can focus and get actual thinking work done without a barrage of distractions from a giant room of people moving and talking around me. Only one of the various offices I worked in with this setup even had a vaguely correct approach to it–the main floor full of people was treated like a library where people talked in soft voices and moved to conference rooms for anything more than a brief word. Everywhere else has been a worst case scenario of salespeople pacing around on calls because all of the phone booths are full, engineers rolling a whiteboard over to their desk and having a planning session because someone kicked them out of a conference room to meet with an important client, groups of people standing around chatting waiting for someone to join them for lunch, etc etc ad nauseum. Never mind the weird sensation of people being able to see your screen all the time and wondering who is walking behind you seeing what you're doing.
Zelphyr 5y ago
I worked at a company that did away with cubicles in favor of long tables where you had just enough space for a laptop and external display and looking past that display, or to your immediate left and right, you saw the faces of your co-workers. That was in a different department than mine. In mine, we had cubicles. Not great but better than the long tables. The owner of the company asked me about the arrangement our department once. I was frank and told him everybody should have their own office. I told him people in our line of work need to be able to focus for long periods of time in order to be productive. He replied, "But I really want to encourage the vibrant atmosphere we have in [other department]!" I just shook my head and thought, "What you see is a vibrant atmosphere is really people not working." I heard after I left that he replaced all the cubicles in my former department with long tables.

by dhosek 5y ago

MattGaiser 5y ago

Thinking of going full remote? That seems dismal.

Steltek 5y ago
I figure remote work will eliminate cubes for engineers regardless. Like many companies, internal surveys show a lot of people preferring perma WFH. With so much empty space, why build out cube farms for the few people that are left in the office? Private offices would be yet another amenity touted by the company. Personally, I really want to be back in my company's open office plan of tiny cubes. I don't have a strong preference for cube or office, I just liked my healthy commute and being in a bustling downtown.
- dleslie 5y ago
  Office space is crazy expensive; the small and medium size shops will see the benefit of closing the office entirely because it amounts to being able to hire another employee or two, in most cities.
  - elzbardico 5y ago
    It won’t be crazy expensive soon if the remote trends continue. In some cities probably we will see office space being converted into housing. Which, along with remote work, is a good thing on my book.
    - pseudalopex 5y ago
      Converting office buildings into housing is incredibly expensive according to everything I've read. Plumbing is inadequate. HVAC is designed for central control of large uniform spaces.
      - JohnFen 5y ago
        This conversion has been done with three buildings in my area (that I know of), as well as with two schools that have closed. It is expensive, yes -- but it's still cheaper than building something new as long as the building is in good shape. But now that I think of it, all five of those buildings were converted into high-end, expensive apartments. Perhaps that's how they cover the cost of conversion?
      - elzbardico 5y ago
        I can't really believe that there isn't a lot of regulatory capture, nimbyism and general bureaucratic idiocy behind this. Yes, some buildings are going to be harder, specially newer ones, but it is no like we allow partitions in offices to be built with asbestos.
dleslie 5y ago
I've been fully remote for six years, and intend never to work in an office again. I'm not sure what's dismal about it? I'm sure you've heard all the arguments for it, but apropos this thread, I feel less like corporate chattel and more like a valued team member. I'm not hurried into stockade-like work environments, cowering under the whims of the bosses, jostling shoulders in a cramped desk corral; I'm working in a space of my own design and in an environment that I control.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  I was referring to being packed into an ever more crowded and open office as dismal. I am team remote too.
  - dleslie 5y ago
    Ah, I misunderstood.

headmelted 5y ago

Looking at the article I'm not sure what's with the choice of photograph at the top. I've never once had a problem with open plan. I can talk with people or not. It's easy to communicate when needs be, and I can put headphones on when I want to not be interrupted. What I have been bothered by is the idea of someone staring over my shoulder whenever they feel like it while I'm at work. It's creepy, it's invasive, and having a glass panel surrounding the office seems like the worst of all worlds. I get that the caption says it isn't creepy. It is creepy. You're completely cut off from everyone else but anyone that feels like it can easily spy on what you're doing all day while you work. This is why so many people don't ever want to return to an office. It's not just the commute. There are so many subtle little negatives that add up and companies don't even want to acknowledge it.

gkop 5y ago
A compromise that I’ve found to make open floor plans work for me, is L-shaped desks. I don’t need a cubicle, but an L-shaped desk gives me the personal space that lets me focus. Unfortunately in my experience, companies are more interested in saving money by cramming us in, than providing a healthy environment to get work done, and L-shaped desks are rare.
- jack_riminton 5y ago
  I think there's something about having distractions in your peripheral vision which speaks to this. Personal space is also a very cultural thing. People in Norway will feel a lot more uncomfortable with a person standing near to them than somewhere say like South America
  - hackingforfun 5y ago
    > I think there's something about having distractions in your peripheral vision which speaks to this. That's exactly what I never liked about open office plans.
michaelcampbell 5y ago
> I can put headphones on when I want to not be interrupted. See: "workaround"

Clubber 5y ago

Back in the 90s, a very large company you've heard of had all their development contractors in cubes with the call center. Headphones to block out the sound were pretty much required to get things done. Me and a college were assigned to a cramped broom closet. We had the best seats because at least we could close the door.

MattGaiser 5y ago
> were assigned to a cramped broom closet. > We had the best seats I am going to send this particular comment to anyone who wonders why workers do not want to go back in.
topkai22 5y ago
I was a contractor to another very large tech company. They were better and tried to give each employee a private office, but were out of space. Employees were doubled up, but they put 8-10 contractors into a converted executive corner office. I was one of them. Then all the other contractors rolled off and they kind of forgot about me for a couple of month, so I, the most junior of junior devs, ended up with a giant corner private office all to myself. After I went full time with the company and asked if I could keep the office. They said no :)
- hbogert 5y ago
  Reminds me of being a msc student. We got a "lab" environment which was just a couple of tables, the lab part was bringing your own laptop, because computer science. PhD candidates came in on hot summer days being pretty jealous, as our room used to be the serverroom, i.e., the only room with working airconditioning.
devchix 5y ago
Early 2000s, me and two others, all working for major US-multinational companies you've all heard of, were onsite for one major US customer. We were all shoved into one cube, ONE. I used to joke that if the cube was any smaller it would have been fornication. Three laptops, gears, writing implements, three chairs. There was one power strip and one desk phone. This went on for probably 5 months. We were all polite, agreeable people so nobody came out with lasting damages.

donatj 5y ago

My friend works for a major manufacturer who switched a few years ago to a similar setup where desks are all unassigned and workers have a locker. He travels between offices very often and apparently there are essentially unwritten “assigned” seats, and has had people end up really angry and go off on him for taking their seat unknowingly while traveling to unfamiliar offices. It really seems like it serves to brew discontent with your people. I can’t imagine the benefits outweigh the downsides, particularly the non-obvious ones like above. I couldn’t work for such a place. I work best when I nest, surrounded by comfort. Photos of my wife, plushies, etc. The general feeling that I have some control over my life however thin. I have thankfully always had a cube, even if my current cube is relatively tiny.

jhickok 5y ago
>I couldn’t work for such a place. I work best when I nest, surrounded by comfort. Photos of my wife, plushies, etc. The general feeling that I have some control over my life however thin. I have thankfully always had a cube, even if my current cube is relatively tiny. The ability to personalize your space makes work just a little bit easier. Otherwise I feel like a literal cog in a machine.
- loonster 5y ago
  I need to bring in my own chair. It makes a significant difference.
  - donatj 5y ago
    I was having pretty significant back pain when I worked for a very small company and decided to buy a chair with fancy adjustable lumbar support. It's 15 years later and I have brought my own chair to every office I've ever worked in.
  - EsotericAlgo 5y ago
    I had a coworker a couple years ago who brought in his own chair (a Herman Miller Aeron). When we came in after a weekend it had been removed and replaced with a cheap, office special that was the default in the cubicles. After a couple days he found it. The facilities manager had moved it into a VPs office because it was an “executive” chair. He had to go through a couple levels of approval, a meeting, and get the chair tagged in order to keep it. Dystopian.

macNchz 5y ago

> It's been six years since I even had a cubicle. Most offices I've worked in since then had us in barrierless rooms, often kind of cramped, with just enough space for a computer and monitor. Look past your monitor and you see a co-worker. Stretch your arms and you hit a co-worker. I've worked in this setup for 10 years or so and the last 18 months of working from home has radicalized me against it. It's honestly kind of extraordinary how much better I can focus and get actual thinking work done without a barrage of distractions from a giant room of people moving and talking around me. Only one of the various offices I worked in with this setup even had a vaguely correct approach to it–the main floor full of people was treated like a library where people talked in soft voices and moved to conference rooms for anything more than a brief word. Everywhere else has been a worst case scenario of salespeople pacing around on calls because all of the phone booths are full, engineers rolling a whiteboard over to their desk and having a planning session because someone kicked them out of a conference room to meet with an important client, groups of people standing around chatting waiting for someone to join them for lunch, etc etc ad nauseum. Never mind the weird sensation of people being able to see your screen all the time and wondering who is walking behind you seeing what you're doing.

Zelphyr 5y ago

I worked at a company that did away with cubicles in favor of long tables where you had just enough space for a laptop and external display and looking past that display, or to your immediate left and right, you saw the faces of your co-workers. That was in a different department than mine. In mine, we had cubicles. Not great but better than the long tables. The owner of the company asked me about the arrangement our department once. I was frank and told him everybody should have their own office. I told him people in our line of work need to be able to focus for long periods of time in order to be productive. He replied, "But I really want to encourage the vibrant atmosphere we have in [other department]!" I just shook my head and thought, "What you see is a vibrant atmosphere is really people not working." I heard after I left that he replaced all the cubicles in my former department with long tables.