5 ms·

I use Firefox and will continue to do so to resist one browser rules all situation.

dtx1 5y ago
We are Chrome. Resistance is futile. Your Internet usage as you know it is over. From this time foward, you will be monitized by us!
wayneftw 5y ago
Every Linux distro uses the Linux kernel and that's not a problem just like Chromium is not a problem for the various browsers that use it. Chromium is entirely open source.
- sodality2 5y ago
  The difference is the development of Linux is community based, whereas the direction of Chromium is all but controlled on Chromium.
  - wayneftw 5y ago
    And? Firefox is not community based either. That's why we have all sorts of things like Pocket integration and constant pointless UI churn that we don't want. Chromium is a whole 5 million lines of code and meanwhile the Linux kernel is 30 million. If Chromium ever stops serving the community, we'll just take it over. Chrome itself is absolutely fine with me. I wouldn't use anything else right now and I love only having to test with Chrome and Safari. Anyway, it doesn't matter what the tiny loud minority of Firefox users think. They've already lost.
    - sodality2 5y ago
      At least Firefox is OSS. I can TELL if there's a backdoor. With Vivaldi? I don't. Will be reinstalling clean Arch after this decision. Also, your tone about Chromium is precisely going to create another IE. Screw this monoculture of browsers. Chrome did the FLoC fiasco, this is proof they can't be trusted.
      - wayneftw 5y ago
        And Chromium isn't OSS?? Wrong. Chromium is a cross-platform OSS browser engine. IE was effectively a single platform closed source browser. FLoC fiasco? You mean a feature you can turn off, that only exists in Chrome and not every browser that uses Chromium? "Every major browser that uses the open source Chromium project has declined to use it..." [0] Gee, it really sounds like Google is in complete control of all other browsers that use Chromium right? [0] https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/16/22387492/google-floc-ad-tech-privacy-browsers-brave-vivaldi-edge-mozilla-chrome-safari https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/16/22387492/google-floc-ad-t...
        sodality2 5y ago
        >"Every major browser that uses the open source Chromium project has declined to use it..." My point is that it should not be something that has to be removed. In fact, I'm vehemently against the idea of it in general. Are we going to start using Chromium with a list of patches to remove all the privacy violations? That's still giving up to the monoculture, though I suppose the privacy violations are assuaged. Why not just use Firefox? Open source? Please explain why it's better to use Vivaldi. I'm arguing against it, but Manjaro must justify why the FOSS spirit of Manjaro was broken, and what possible benefit (metaphorical, or $$$ literal) would be gained by switching to Vivaldi. >Gee, it really sounds like Google is in complete control of all other browsers that use Chromium right? In complete control of Chromium.
        wayneftw 5y ago
        > My point is that it should not be something that has to be removed. And it isn't a feature at all if you use any other Chromium based browser (not Chrome) like Brave, Edge or Vivaldi. > Please explain why it's better to use Vivaldi. I didn't say that you should use Vivaldi. Nope. I said that there are plenty of non-Chrome Chromium browsers to use in response to someone saying that there is a "one browser rules all" situation. There's not. There's not even a "one browser-engine to rule them all" situation given that Safari (WebKit) has a very sizable market share. > In complete control of Chromium. Yep and Linus Torvalds is in complete control of the Linux kernel, yet we have hundreds of distros that all do things differently. And it doesn't matter as much as you think it does. Here's Microsoft discussing their decision to not fork Chromium, because they don't have to - "We have chosen not to fork since we don’t want to fragment the community, but our infrastructure does allow us to maintain patches for cases where we have a different point of view on individual changes (we talked about the webRequest/Manifest V3 changes in a couple other places. In general we plan to upstream our web platform improvements to the Chromium project. " [0] [0] https://windowsreport.com/chromiums-edge-fork/ https://windowsreport.com/chromiums-edge-fork/
oynqr 5y ago
Do yourself a favor and use LibreWolf.
edflsafoiewq 5y ago
Pretty sad Firefox advocacy has reached the point of "use it to keep the marketshare up!".
- rasfincher 5y ago
  It is sad. Especially considering I think it's a damn good browser, especially on the Mac where it doesn't seem to burn as much battery as Chrome.
- wing-_-nuts 5y ago
  It's a good browser! I've used it since the days of mozilla. It's only gotten better. Honestly I really prefer it to chrome. FF mobile is best in class as a mobile browser for the sole reason that it allows extensions like ublock. FF developer edition is, imho better than chrome. I tried chrome on linux some years back, and experienced an issue where the browser would crash the os on the extensions search page. Years went by without this being fixed. Firefox would never do that.
  - wildfire 5y ago
    I have to agree, FF mobile is a breath of fresh air. I have now switched to it as my default ( am using it now). Features like auto-closing tabs after X time (days, weeks, months) are things I always wanted but never knew I needed. See: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/auto-close-open-tabs-firefox-android https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/auto-close-open-tabs-fi...
- jgilias 5y ago
  I use Firefox because it's the better browser in my experience. For me the killer feature is the container thing. I'm not even sure how it's called. So I have different containers with persistent sessions for different purposes. Work/personal/consulting. Makes things much easier when you don't need to juggle gmail/slack/microsoft logins all the time. I've integrated that into my personal workflows so tightly that I'd be very unhappy if I had to use a browser without that capability. Last I checked Chrome(ium) doesn't have it. What about Oper... I mean Vivaldi?
- 5y ago
betwixthewires 5y ago
When a tool has to be used for ideological reasons and not because it is the best tool available we are in trouble.
- hammyhavoc 5y ago
  Without this mentality, Linux would not exist in its current form, and neither would countless now-amazing open source projects. IMO, the 'fabric' of your computational experience, from the kernel to core utilities like your web browser, email client and IM, should all be open source and possible to trust. Trust, privacy, and security trump gimmicks for a not insignificant number of individuals, and businesses. Vivaldi's USP, in its current state of not being 100% open source, is based upon UX gimmicks. Is Vivaldi a 'good' browser? That is wholly dependent on your threat model and requirements. Vivaldi is not 'the best tool available' if you are concerned about privacy.
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    No, it isn't. Ungoogled Chromium is.

dtx1 5y ago

We are Chrome. Resistance is futile. Your Internet usage as you know it is over. From this time foward, you will be monitized by us!

wayneftw 5y ago

Every Linux distro uses the Linux kernel and that's not a problem just like Chromium is not a problem for the various browsers that use it. Chromium is entirely open source.

sodality2 5y ago
The difference is the development of Linux is community based, whereas the direction of Chromium is all but controlled on Chromium.
- wayneftw 5y ago
  And? Firefox is not community based either. That's why we have all sorts of things like Pocket integration and constant pointless UI churn that we don't want. Chromium is a whole 5 million lines of code and meanwhile the Linux kernel is 30 million. If Chromium ever stops serving the community, we'll just take it over. Chrome itself is absolutely fine with me. I wouldn't use anything else right now and I love only having to test with Chrome and Safari. Anyway, it doesn't matter what the tiny loud minority of Firefox users think. They've already lost.
  - sodality2 5y ago
    At least Firefox is OSS. I can TELL if there's a backdoor. With Vivaldi? I don't. Will be reinstalling clean Arch after this decision. Also, your tone about Chromium is precisely going to create another IE. Screw this monoculture of browsers. Chrome did the FLoC fiasco, this is proof they can't be trusted.
    - wayneftw 5y ago
      And Chromium isn't OSS?? Wrong. Chromium is a cross-platform OSS browser engine. IE was effectively a single platform closed source browser. FLoC fiasco? You mean a feature you can turn off, that only exists in Chrome and not every browser that uses Chromium? "Every major browser that uses the open source Chromium project has declined to use it..." [0] Gee, it really sounds like Google is in complete control of all other browsers that use Chromium right? [0] https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/16/22387492/google-floc-ad-tech-privacy-browsers-brave-vivaldi-edge-mozilla-chrome-safari https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/16/22387492/google-floc-ad-t...
      - sodality2 5y ago
        >"Every major browser that uses the open source Chromium project has declined to use it..." My point is that it should not be something that has to be removed. In fact, I'm vehemently against the idea of it in general. Are we going to start using Chromium with a list of patches to remove all the privacy violations? That's still giving up to the monoculture, though I suppose the privacy violations are assuaged. Why not just use Firefox? Open source? Please explain why it's better to use Vivaldi. I'm arguing against it, but Manjaro must justify why the FOSS spirit of Manjaro was broken, and what possible benefit (metaphorical, or $$$ literal) would be gained by switching to Vivaldi. >Gee, it really sounds like Google is in complete control of all other browsers that use Chromium right? In complete control of Chromium.
        wayneftw 5y ago
        > My point is that it should not be something that has to be removed. And it isn't a feature at all if you use any other Chromium based browser (not Chrome) like Brave, Edge or Vivaldi. > Please explain why it's better to use Vivaldi. I didn't say that you should use Vivaldi. Nope. I said that there are plenty of non-Chrome Chromium browsers to use in response to someone saying that there is a "one browser rules all" situation. There's not. There's not even a "one browser-engine to rule them all" situation given that Safari (WebKit) has a very sizable market share. > In complete control of Chromium. Yep and Linus Torvalds is in complete control of the Linux kernel, yet we have hundreds of distros that all do things differently. And it doesn't matter as much as you think it does. Here's Microsoft discussing their decision to not fork Chromium, because they don't have to - "We have chosen not to fork since we don’t want to fragment the community, but our infrastructure does allow us to maintain patches for cases where we have a different point of view on individual changes (we talked about the webRequest/Manifest V3 changes in a couple other places. In general we plan to upstream our web platform improvements to the Chromium project. " [0] [0] https://windowsreport.com/chromiums-edge-fork/ https://windowsreport.com/chromiums-edge-fork/

oynqr 5y ago

Do yourself a favor and use LibreWolf.

edflsafoiewq 5y ago

Pretty sad Firefox advocacy has reached the point of "use it to keep the marketshare up!".

rasfincher 5y ago
It is sad. Especially considering I think it's a damn good browser, especially on the Mac where it doesn't seem to burn as much battery as Chrome.
wing-_-nuts 5y ago
It's a good browser! I've used it since the days of mozilla. It's only gotten better. Honestly I really prefer it to chrome. FF mobile is best in class as a mobile browser for the sole reason that it allows extensions like ublock. FF developer edition is, imho better than chrome. I tried chrome on linux some years back, and experienced an issue where the browser would crash the os on the extensions search page. Years went by without this being fixed. Firefox would never do that.
- wildfire 5y ago
  I have to agree, FF mobile is a breath of fresh air. I have now switched to it as my default ( am using it now). Features like auto-closing tabs after X time (days, weeks, months) are things I always wanted but never knew I needed. See: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/auto-close-open-tabs-firefox-android https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/auto-close-open-tabs-fi...
jgilias 5y ago
I use Firefox because it's the better browser in my experience. For me the killer feature is the container thing. I'm not even sure how it's called. So I have different containers with persistent sessions for different purposes. Work/personal/consulting. Makes things much easier when you don't need to juggle gmail/slack/microsoft logins all the time. I've integrated that into my personal workflows so tightly that I'd be very unhappy if I had to use a browser without that capability. Last I checked Chrome(ium) doesn't have it. What about Oper... I mean Vivaldi?
5y ago

betwixthewires 5y ago

When a tool has to be used for ideological reasons and not because it is the best tool available we are in trouble.

hammyhavoc 5y ago
Without this mentality, Linux would not exist in its current form, and neither would countless now-amazing open source projects. IMO, the 'fabric' of your computational experience, from the kernel to core utilities like your web browser, email client and IM, should all be open source and possible to trust. Trust, privacy, and security trump gimmicks for a not insignificant number of individuals, and businesses. Vivaldi's USP, in its current state of not being 100% open source, is based upon UX gimmicks. Is Vivaldi a 'good' browser? That is wholly dependent on your threat model and requirements. Vivaldi is not 'the best tool available' if you are concerned about privacy.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  No, it isn't. Ungoogled Chromium is.