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IMO, this type of political nihilism is the natural result of a dispirited populace grown used to delegating its own government to unaccountable managers. I'm n

by ctrlp 5y ago

IMO, this type of political nihilism is the natural result of a dispirited populace grown used to delegating its own government to unaccountable managers. I'm not arguing for sovereign citizenship, just regular citizenship. There is a long tradition of political thought regarding liberty and freedom, your cynicism notwithstanding. If you ever find yourself using terms like 'rights', 'free', or 'justice' without quotations then I hope you can resolve your internal contractions.

halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
Citizenship comes with strings attached and I'm under no illusion or delusion that I am "free" in the objective sense. I'm also completely ok with that because society has afforded me great freedom(s) that I could not have elsewhere. I _have_ to work a job, I _have_ to pay taxes, I _have_ to enlist if called upon in the draft, I _have_ to be vaccinated to go to school. The inconvenient truth may be that as society becomes more interconnected, the less objective freedoms we have because we're trying to scale humanity and reap the collective benefits. Again, I'm completely ok with that because even in software, we have standards that software must abide by in order to interoperate efficiently. You can't just say "I don't want to conform the society's standards" yet reap the benefits the collective has provided. I'm content with my world view, maybe it's you that needs to look outside of yourself and see what everyone is actually trying to do here (outside of this immediate situation, I mean the species as a whole).
- ctrlp 5y ago
  You previously used "freedoms" in mocking quotes. Which freedoms are you referring to now and why do you think they don't deserve the same mockery? You also confidently throw around terms like 'benefits' and 'collective' as if those terms have objective meanings we can all agree on. What you're describing sounds like the happy path to techno-totalitarianism. You're only saying what you said before, that you'll be fine ("completely ok") with that outcome. Will you be content when you have to present digitally signed 'papers' to participate in what today we would consider normal functions of life? It sounds like the answer is 'yes', because you see it as the cost of 'scaling humanity', whatever that means.
  - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
    I'm mocking the way people who believe and use the word "freedom" to assert some innate sovereignty over how they are allowed to act in society and faux rights which they don't actually have. People who use phrases such as "wearing a mask tramples on my freedom". These "freedoms" aren't actually freedoms. They're made up to mean "things I don't like" and in no codified law both common or contemporary. I'm not describing anything other than the complete lack of perspective and, frankly, will for these people to operate in a society which needs their cooperation in order to function efficiently. These people are more like a virus than anything. I already have to show physical "papers": passport, license, social security card, birth certificate, etc. Why should I be worried about "digital" papers? Again, completely delusional conspiracy that has no basis in reality.
    - ctrlp 5y ago
      You've already decided to dehumanize the people who don't agree to take a mandated health intervention. You may feel comfortable comparing people to viruses but I don't. The 20th century has a nasty history of that sort of thing. As far as delusional conspiracy theories, what's your opinion on social credit systems, central bank digital currencies, and intra-national passports? Last I checked those are on the menu in China and coming to a democracy near you.

by ctrlp 5y ago

halfmatthalfcat 5y ago

Citizenship comes with strings attached and I'm under no illusion or delusion that I am "free" in the objective sense. I'm also completely ok with that because society has afforded me great freedom(s) that I could not have elsewhere. I _have_ to work a job, I _have_ to pay taxes, I _have_ to enlist if called upon in the draft, I _have_ to be vaccinated to go to school. The inconvenient truth may be that as society becomes more interconnected, the less objective freedoms we have because we're trying to scale humanity and reap the collective benefits. Again, I'm completely ok with that because even in software, we have standards that software must abide by in order to interoperate efficiently. You can't just say "I don't want to conform the society's standards" yet reap the benefits the collective has provided. I'm content with my world view, maybe it's you that needs to look outside of yourself and see what everyone is actually trying to do here (outside of this immediate situation, I mean the species as a whole).

ctrlp 5y ago
You previously used "freedoms" in mocking quotes. Which freedoms are you referring to now and why do you think they don't deserve the same mockery? You also confidently throw around terms like 'benefits' and 'collective' as if those terms have objective meanings we can all agree on. What you're describing sounds like the happy path to techno-totalitarianism. You're only saying what you said before, that you'll be fine ("completely ok") with that outcome. Will you be content when you have to present digitally signed 'papers' to participate in what today we would consider normal functions of life? It sounds like the answer is 'yes', because you see it as the cost of 'scaling humanity', whatever that means.
- halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
  I'm mocking the way people who believe and use the word "freedom" to assert some innate sovereignty over how they are allowed to act in society and faux rights which they don't actually have. People who use phrases such as "wearing a mask tramples on my freedom". These "freedoms" aren't actually freedoms. They're made up to mean "things I don't like" and in no codified law both common or contemporary. I'm not describing anything other than the complete lack of perspective and, frankly, will for these people to operate in a society which needs their cooperation in order to function efficiently. These people are more like a virus than anything. I already have to show physical "papers": passport, license, social security card, birth certificate, etc. Why should I be worried about "digital" papers? Again, completely delusional conspiracy that has no basis in reality.
  - ctrlp 5y ago
    You've already decided to dehumanize the people who don't agree to take a mandated health intervention. You may feel comfortable comparing people to viruses but I don't. The 20th century has a nasty history of that sort of thing. As far as delusional conspiracy theories, what's your opinion on social credit systems, central bank digital currencies, and intra-national passports? Last I checked those are on the menu in China and coming to a democracy near you.