4 ms·

This is a bit different. First, the type of vaccine is different - the COVID vaccines don't stop you from getting COVID or -- crucially -- transmitting it to o

This is a bit different. First, the type of vaccine is different - the COVID vaccines don't stop you from getting COVID or -- crucially -- transmitting it to others, whereas the ones that school children require to get do so. Second, two of the three available are still under EUA, and the one that is approved is of a new type of vaccine that became approved through a very unconventional route, which has some folks cautious. Those other vaccines you mention are well-established and have been proven over time and through clinical testing to be safe and effective. COVID vaccines have proven to be only effective at reducing reactions, but not very effective at reducing spread. Note that a typical clinical trial lasts years[0] - phase II usually takes 2-3 years and phase III takes an additional 2-4 years. We've had these vaccines for less than one year; if this was a typical vaccine, it'd be only part-way through phase II trials. And now it's mandated by the government; get this shot, some of which are using new technology, that has had shortened clinical trials or lose your livelihood (because, at $14k per infraction, I don't see many large companies bothering to offer testing as an alternative unless it's for the CEO or other executives; it's just too much liability for an easily-replaceable lower-wage employee). > but the unwillingness to acknowledge precedent is bizarre That's because your precedent isn't an exact match, and has had easy alternatives and ways to opt-out. [0] https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/vaccines/timeline https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/vaccines/timeline

md_ 5y ago
Well, this also has easy alternatives: the OSHA rules allow testing as an alternative. They do not mandate vaccination. To your other point, the vaccines do reduce transmission, as far as I can tell (e.g. https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/mounting-evidence-suggests-covid-vaccines-do-reduce-transmission-how-does-work https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/mounting-evidence-suggests...). Now, to be perfectly serious, I do think that any efforts at compulsory--or, as in this case, incentivized, since testing remains an alternative--medical measures exist in a tension between the utilitarian and the libertarian point of view. We should certainly be cautious about mandating any medical procedure, and do our best to preserve alternatives (like testing, or mask wearing, or by limiting mandates to as narrow a scenario as necessary). But I don't think the debate is helped by getting the facts wrong.

md_ 5y ago

Well, this also has easy alternatives: the OSHA rules allow testing as an alternative. They do not mandate vaccination. To your other point, the vaccines do reduce transmission, as far as I can tell (e.g. https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/mounting-evidence-suggests-covid-vaccines-do-reduce-transmission-how-does-work https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/mounting-evidence-suggests...). Now, to be perfectly serious, I do think that any efforts at compulsory--or, as in this case, incentivized, since testing remains an alternative--medical measures exist in a tension between the utilitarian and the libertarian point of view. We should certainly be cautious about mandating any medical procedure, and do our best to preserve alternatives (like testing, or mask wearing, or by limiting mandates to as narrow a scenario as necessary). But I don't think the debate is helped by getting the facts wrong.