4 ms·

> Anti-vaccination enthusiasts k

tomrod 5y ago
More specifically, herd immunity is necessary for people who cannot receive the vaccine to be protected. These types of folks are often the immunocompromised. Herd immunity kicks in when the proportion of folks with sufficient antibodies is high enough, formally modeled as H >= 1 - 1/R_0, where H is the herd immunity level and R_0 is the average rate of cases caused per each case. R_0 (or more appropriately R_t) is dependent both on the intrinsic attributes of the virus as well as behavior of the organisms the virus infects. So ensuring a large population with strong, effective prevention is in the national interest, is in the evolutionary interest based on all available science, and is in the interests of vulnerable populations.
- peteradio 5y ago
  And those who have already recovered are contributing to herd immunity at least on par with those vaccinated. Agree or disagree?
  - tomrod 5y ago
    Results are mixed on whether prior infection is on par with vaccination. For Delta the current understanding that vaccines are 70% to 90% efficacious, and prior infection is 60% to 80% efficacious. Being both vaccinated and having prior infection shows much stronger immune response. https://catalyst.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/CAT.21.0288 https://catalyst.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/CAT.21.0288
    - peteradio 5y ago
      Can you check your link? I think those are serology studies which cannot give an indication of efficacy. I believe you that recovered+vaccine gives stronger measurable antibodies but above some threshold more antibodies does not really give any indication of the two most important factors: 1) transmissibility 2) patient outcomes What do you find when we compare recovered vs vaccine for those factors?
      - tomrod 5y ago
        Reinfection rates are pretty low, partially due to immunity, partially due to behavior (if you've had it you probably know you have it again), and partially because of data drift (federated data sources don't cleanly connect despite reporting to CDC). Vaccination breakthrough rates at point of testing are something like 1/20 to 1/100 versus the canonical susceptible population, without stratifying for ages or patient outcomes or correcting for population biases.
        peteradio 5y ago
        Thank you for the information and conversation.
        tomrod 5y ago
        A tangent: the UK has some of the best monitoring implemented and sees antibodies in about 95% of its population. That said, reinfection rate as of June 2021 (roughly pre-Delta) was 0.4% over that population cohort. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-national-surveillance-of-possible-covid-19-reinfection-published-by-phe https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-national-surveillance...
- landemva 5y ago
  Does your herd immunity include vaccinating the herds of deer and cats which also carry and transmit?

More specifically, herd immunity is necessary for people who cannot receive the vaccine to be protected. These types of folks are often the immunocompromised. Herd immunity kicks in when the proportion of folks with sufficient antibodies is high enough, formally modeled as H >= 1 - 1/R_0, where H is the herd immunity level and R_0 is the average rate of cases caused per each case. R_0 (or more appropriately R_t) is dependent both on the intrinsic attributes of the virus as well as behavior of the organisms the virus infects. So ensuring a large population with strong, effective prevention is in the national interest, is in the evolutionary interest based on all available science, and is in the interests of vulnerable populations.

peteradio 5y ago
And those who have already recovered are contributing to herd immunity at least on par with those vaccinated. Agree or disagree?
- tomrod 5y ago
  Results are mixed on whether prior infection is on par with vaccination. For Delta the current understanding that vaccines are 70% to 90% efficacious, and prior infection is 60% to 80% efficacious. Being both vaccinated and having prior infection shows much stronger immune response. https://catalyst.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/CAT.21.0288 https://catalyst.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/CAT.21.0288
  - peteradio 5y ago
    Can you check your link? I think those are serology studies which cannot give an indication of efficacy. I believe you that recovered+vaccine gives stronger measurable antibodies but above some threshold more antibodies does not really give any indication of the two most important factors: 1) transmissibility 2) patient outcomes What do you find when we compare recovered vs vaccine for those factors?
    - tomrod 5y ago
      Reinfection rates are pretty low, partially due to immunity, partially due to behavior (if you've had it you probably know you have it again), and partially because of data drift (federated data sources don't cleanly connect despite reporting to CDC). Vaccination breakthrough rates at point of testing are something like 1/20 to 1/100 versus the canonical susceptible population, without stratifying for ages or patient outcomes or correcting for population biases.
      - peteradio 5y ago
        Thank you for the information and conversation.
        tomrod 5y ago
        A tangent: the UK has some of the best monitoring implemented and sees antibodies in about 95% of its population. That said, reinfection rate as of June 2021 (roughly pre-Delta) was 0.4% over that population cohort. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-national-surveillance-of-possible-covid-19-reinfection-published-by-phe https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-national-surveillance...
landemva 5y ago
Does your herd immunity include vaccinating the herds of deer and cats which also carry and transmit?