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I don’t think most people have an issue with voluntary vaccination. The problem is when nefarious actors use the situation to create a surveillance state, socia

I don’t think most people have an issue with voluntary vaccination. The problem is when nefarious actors use the situation to create a surveillance state, social credit system, and then exclude people from doing simple human things like eating at a restaurant. Australia is the future of the Western world.

boplicity 5y ago
> Surveillance state If that exists, it existed before COVID, and vaccinations against COVID certainly haven't changed that. > Social credit system Are you referring to mandates? These have been a thing, in the U.S., for many decades > exclude people from doing simple human things Vaccine mandates have excluded people from things far more important than restaurants, such as education, for many decades. This is not new to COVID. You seem to be arguing against a system that has existed for many, many years.
- disneygibson 5y ago
  Most of the new things didn’t exist before. This is…basic information. Even if they did, it’s pretty obvious that they have been dramatically increased in the last 18 months. You seem extremely uninformed.
  - boplicity 5y ago
    For example, requiring almost everyone to get a vaccine? That's not new. That's been happening for decades. The only difference is there's a new vaccine that needs to be rolled out to everyone, as quickly as possible. Most people get their mandatory vaccines as children, in a staggered way. Because of the current situation, it's happening all at once, and the restrictions that enforce the vaccine are also being changed, based on the age of the people required to get the vaccine. What am I missing here?
    - disneygibson 5y ago
      When was it common to prevent people from entering a restaurant unless they were vaccinated with a vaccine that itself had only been developed 15 months prior?
      - boplicity 5y ago
        You're comparing denying education to children to denying non-essential services, such as restaurants, to adults. One is an essential right, the other is not. If anything the restrictions people are putting in place to enforce the vaccine mandate have been less extreme. As workplace mandates get rolled out, this will become more even, as the right to work is comparable to the right to an education. As I tried to communicate before, curtailing basic rights in order to enforce vaccinations for everyone is not new. The only difference is that these usually happen based on age, instead of happening to everyone, all at once.
      - boplicity 5y ago
        Apparently, in the past, the Supreme Court even allowed knocking down people's doors in order to force vaccinations. "That was a relatively easy no for the court. In a 7-2 ruling in Jacobson vs. Massachusetts, it decided that jurisdictions do have the right to require people to get vaccinated. Back then, the government was much more forceful about it, knocking down people’s doors to get them vaccinated, the New York Times says." https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/10/republican-governors-challenges-vaccine-mandates/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/10/republica... Denying access to restaurants seems....timid? At least, in comparison.
        TechBro8615 5y ago
        This meme about “Jacobson vs. Massachusetts” doesn’t seem as strong an argument as the useful idiots believe. It’s an example of the court affirming the right of a State Legislature. It says nothing about the right of the executive branch of the federal government to forbid private transactions between employers and employees, unless the employee submits to a medical procedure mandated by executive order. I’m sure the argument falls apart in many other ways. You can probably find the counter arguments in the same Twitter thread where you found your talking points – just make sure to unhide the tweets containing them.
- _-david-_ 5y ago
  >If that exists, it existed before COVID, and vaccinations against COVID certainly haven't changed that. Australia is taking it to the next level and using covid as an excuse. Do you believe that they will end their programs in 5 years when all of this is over? >Are you referring to mandates? These have been a thing, in the U.S., for many decades Vaccine passports are starting to be required to go to concerts, grocery stores, ball games, etc. If you do not do what the state wants you to do you will become a second class citizen with restrictions. This is similar to the social credit system in China. >Vaccine mandates have excluded people from things far more important than restaurants, such as education, for many decades. This is not new to COVID. No one is restricted from education. You can go to a private school or get an exemption.

boplicity 5y ago

> Surveillance state If that exists, it existed before COVID, and vaccinations against COVID certainly haven't changed that. > Social credit system Are you referring to mandates? These have been a thing, in the U.S., for many decades > exclude people from doing simple human things Vaccine mandates have excluded people from things far more important than restaurants, such as education, for many decades. This is not new to COVID. You seem to be arguing against a system that has existed for many, many years.

disneygibson 5y ago
Most of the new things didn’t exist before. This is…basic information. Even if they did, it’s pretty obvious that they have been dramatically increased in the last 18 months. You seem extremely uninformed.
- boplicity 5y ago
  For example, requiring almost everyone to get a vaccine? That's not new. That's been happening for decades. The only difference is there's a new vaccine that needs to be rolled out to everyone, as quickly as possible. Most people get their mandatory vaccines as children, in a staggered way. Because of the current situation, it's happening all at once, and the restrictions that enforce the vaccine are also being changed, based on the age of the people required to get the vaccine. What am I missing here?
  - disneygibson 5y ago
    When was it common to prevent people from entering a restaurant unless they were vaccinated with a vaccine that itself had only been developed 15 months prior?
    - boplicity 5y ago
      You're comparing denying education to children to denying non-essential services, such as restaurants, to adults. One is an essential right, the other is not. If anything the restrictions people are putting in place to enforce the vaccine mandate have been less extreme. As workplace mandates get rolled out, this will become more even, as the right to work is comparable to the right to an education. As I tried to communicate before, curtailing basic rights in order to enforce vaccinations for everyone is not new. The only difference is that these usually happen based on age, instead of happening to everyone, all at once.
    - boplicity 5y ago
      Apparently, in the past, the Supreme Court even allowed knocking down people's doors in order to force vaccinations. "That was a relatively easy no for the court. In a 7-2 ruling in Jacobson vs. Massachusetts, it decided that jurisdictions do have the right to require people to get vaccinated. Back then, the government was much more forceful about it, knocking down people’s doors to get them vaccinated, the New York Times says." https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/10/republican-governors-challenges-vaccine-mandates/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/10/republica... Denying access to restaurants seems....timid? At least, in comparison.
      - TechBro8615 5y ago
        This meme about “Jacobson vs. Massachusetts” doesn’t seem as strong an argument as the useful idiots believe. It’s an example of the court affirming the right of a State Legislature. It says nothing about the right of the executive branch of the federal government to forbid private transactions between employers and employees, unless the employee submits to a medical procedure mandated by executive order. I’m sure the argument falls apart in many other ways. You can probably find the counter arguments in the same Twitter thread where you found your talking points – just make sure to unhide the tweets containing them.
_-david-_ 5y ago
>If that exists, it existed before COVID, and vaccinations against COVID certainly haven't changed that. Australia is taking it to the next level and using covid as an excuse. Do you believe that they will end their programs in 5 years when all of this is over? >Are you referring to mandates? These have been a thing, in the U.S., for many decades Vaccine passports are starting to be required to go to concerts, grocery stores, ball games, etc. If you do not do what the state wants you to do you will become a second class citizen with restrictions. This is similar to the social credit system in China. >Vaccine mandates have excluded people from things far more important than restaurants, such as education, for many decades. This is not new to COVID. No one is restricted from education. You can go to a private school or get an exemption.