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I recently bought a 32" 4K monitor. Two different models were at at that point inexpensive enough to tempt me. A smart one, and different brand, dumb one for
by MarkusWandel 5y ago
I recently bought a 32" 4K monitor. Two different models were at at that point inexpensive enough to tempt me. A smart one, and different brand, dumb one for $50 more. I bought the latter. I'm happy.
The market decides, right? What is actually happening here?
1. Most people actually like this overdone gimmickry?
2. Most people think they will like it, buy it and then get sick of it? Thus people like me, who seek out the ungimmicked product, are not a significant market force?
3. Most people would prefer not to have it, but due to a free market failure, the ungimmicked product just isn't available any more?
The gimmicks are everywhere. We have a basic "Instant Pot" pressure cooker. It has just the right amount of electronic smarts. A few button presses to cook a roast to completion in about an hour, and walk away. It beeps when it's done. With later models you see an almost obsessive drive to load them up with more features, few of which anyone will ever use.
- codesections 5y ago> 3. Most people would prefer not to have it, but due to a free market failure, the ungimmicked product just isn't available any more? No, I'd go with (4) people would prefer not to have it, but companies know that they can monitize the data they collect[0] and thus are willing to offer a discount that's large enough to get people (who may or may not know about the data collection) to buy the smart™ version. [0]: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2019/02/21/why-tvs-so-cheap-now-your-smart-tv-spying-you-money/2910013002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2019/02/21/w...
- caymanjim 5y agoThis, and also people simply don't know. Your average consumer buying a TV has no idea what metrics the device is capturing and sharing, or that by connecting it to the Internet, they're not just receiving information, they're sending it. Even cynical/paranoid tech-savvy people are caught off guard when real-time personalized ads start showing up in the on-screen menus of their Internet-connected devices, and would be annoyed to know that their usage patterns are monitored even when they aren't explicitly using an Internet service like Netflix.
- ljm 5y ago5) people can't afford the unburdened tech so they will go for the lowest-priced/highest reviewed option and nothing else matters
- dylan604 5y ago5-rev) People don't know about and/or care about tracking/telemetry, and do not understand that the data collected earns the manufacture additional income. They only see price and highly manipulated revies, then make their purchase.
- curryst 5y agoNail on the head. I think the gimmickry exists as a facade to give them a reason to slap enough electronics in a device to be able to harvest data, and to piggyback off the user's internet for "updates". If you're going to put a microphone in a fridge, people are going to want to know why, so you need some kind of gimmick that allegedly uses it so you don't have to admit it's mostly there for data harvesting. They are cheaper (in dollars), which does appeal to consumers. Manufacturers sell the data and discount the merchandise. Tangential, but I'm curious what the margins on stuff like smart-fridges are. It seems like competition would drive us to a point where smart appliances are sold for at or below cost, with profits coming from selling data. It's crazy to me that LG or Maytag could become a data vendor that just so happens to sell appliances, because the data has to come from somewhere.
- increscent 5y agoWould it be possible to create a business where you: * Buy the cheap hardware at wholesale prices * Strip the surveillance tech and/or re-flash the firmware * Sell the "dumb" product for the same price as the "smart" one In this case, the "smart" vendor would likely lose money if they're selling below cost. So the only difficulty would be a legal one... I'm not sure if it's legal to buy a product, modify it, and then re-sell it.
- b3morales 5y agoI feel certain there was a court case about this, but can't remember it. It's similar to the company that re-sold edited versions of popular movies. Doing this as a sale, for electronics, you'd probably fall afoul of certification problems (e.g. whatever boxes Underwriters Lab had ticked wouldn't apply to the modified version). There would be branding issues. And regardless of whether it turned out to be legal, you'd 100% draw a lawsuit from the original manufacturer. If it were to work out at all, this would probably have to be done in a way that (legally at least) the customer is not buying the device modified from you. They would have to purchase the device first, then bring it to you to modify, for which you charge a fee. Even then you'd probably still get sued. Not a lawyer, though, so this is just speculation based on following tech over the years.
- thomastjeffery 5y agoThis would be the same action as installing Linux on a PS3 or editing the firmware on a John Deere tractor. It's both practically unfeasable for the average consumer, and a legal risk for whoever manages to do it.
- SuoDuanDao 5y agoI would guess that the company believes it can extract ($50+cost of the gimmickry) from the people who buy the gimmicky product.
- dylan604 5y ago>$50+cost of the gimmickry at scale, I'd venture to guess the cost of the gimmickry rounds to 0.
- armenarmen 5y agoCould you please share a link to the dumb one you ended up purchasing?
- thekingofravens 5y agoYeah there is a lot of interest in knowing what dumb models exist for 4k
- turtlebits 5y agoI’ve actually never seen a “smart” monitor.
- mhh__ 5y agoI have a BenQ 32inch 4K thing. It was about £350. Just get that. If you care about the panel a lot then you'll have to pay more, I think refresh rates are out of the question
- MarkusWandel 5y agoThe one I did get was an LG UN550
- leetcrew 5y agowhat exactly is a "smart" monitor? I'm familiar with smart TVs, but I can't see how any of those features could be useful in a screen that I plug directly into a computer.
- JasonFruit 5y agoThe advantage is that the monitor provides the sort of usage data the company can sell to others. To be clear, it's not an advantage to you.
- aix1 5y agoCould you give some concrete examples of the types of data that an existing smart monitor (not a TV) collects and sells to others? (Ideally also naming the manufacture and the device.)
- ttty2 5y agoScreenshots of what you look at.
- JasonFruit 5y agoFive years ago when I last looked into it, a "smart monitor" was a monitor running a custom Android setup that could do whatever a smart TV or tablet could do. The possibilities for data collection are practically unlimited, and recent experiences with smart TV updates putting ads where no ads were before show that potential matters; it's on the basis of potential that I'm against it, not because I have detailed knowledge of what's being done now.
- aix1 5y agoHow would such a "smart monitor" connect to the Internet? Wouldn't that require network hardware not commonly found in monitors as well as some cooperation from the owner (to hook up the monitor to their network, with unclear benefits)?
- satellite2 5y agoI would like to buy a smart scale because I think the data it provides would be really useful to me. So in my case the smart gimmick really is the feature I want. Unfortunately I price my weight data very differently than they do, so unless they pay me multiple tens of thousands of dollars I would not agree for it to send the data it collect. Unfortunately there is no such smart scale. So I would add to your list a 5) paying with actual money for smart appliances that don't snitch
- snthd 5y agohttps://github.com/oliexdev/openScale/wiki/Supported-scales-in-openScale https://github.com/oliexdev/openScale/wiki/Supported-scales-... (Not that it detracts from your point about the market).
- satellite2 5y agoThat's great! Thank God there is open source. It's funny how open source started as "the manufacturer is too lazy to support my use case" and now is becoming "the manufacturer is too greedy / cannot be trusted"
- only_as_i_fall 5y agoThe mi scales can be set up to have smart features locally. Only caveat is that you need to use the app for initial setup and of course this assumes there isn't any kind of undisclosed antenna nonsense.
- Spooky23 5y agoPeople line up at 4AM to get a garbage TV from Walmart on Black Friday. It’s a commodity and people only care about price. It’s a crowded marketplace, and the only way to eke out margin is better quality and/or features. For TVs, people in general give no shits about panel quality/color/etc, and volume shipment of better stuff is costly. But people love features, and bolting on software enhances margins at no or low cost. Cooking gear is the same.
- only_as_i_fall 5y agoSmart TV baffle me because their software is always garbage and even non-tech people can tell its garbage. I've never seen someone happy with the OS in their television and most people use an external box anyway. Yet every TV must be wifi compatible with a bunch of shifty streaming apps bolted on.
- Spooky23 5y agoRemember that TV is for everyone. Think of the dumbest person you know - the dumbest person that guy knows also has a TV.
- corobo 5y agoI think it's more that people outside of HN don't really care about their privacy if it's not visibly being violated. From there it's cheapest and biggest wins
- freedomben 5y agoI talk to a lot of them about privacy, and nearly all of them do care. They just have no idea what's happening, and after I tell them, they have no idea how to stop it and give up. Happens every time.
- corobo 5y agoIf we're just using anecdata I'm sticking with mine
- BugWatch 5y agoI have a friend who "just doesn't care that much about it"... to the amount that it is straining my ability to continue the friendship (unbeknownst to him). (He's not a techy person, and is in(to?) Apple's walled-off gardens.) And, because of people like him, anti-privacy micro steps are continuously made, and Overton windows slowly but continually shifts... until one moment when he/they start to care, but then it's too late. And then they're usually greatly surprised and astonished that "that's allowed?!". Yeah, it is, buddy, it is. Because you "just didn't care that much". Now you have to live with consequences that the rest of who "did care" have lived (and fought) with since the [metaphorical] beginning.