4 ms·

It would probably save lives _and_ lower the cost of healthcare. This is why many employers already offer free on-site "influence" (heh) shots for employees: it

by md_ 5y ago

It would probably save lives _and_ lower the cost of healthcare. This is why many employers already offer free on-site "influence" (heh) shots for employees: it makes good business sense. I'm never sure how to take objections like yours, because there are certainly a few different things to discuss. Is your objection to the government's role in this (such that you'd be fine with private employers enforcing whatever mandates they wish)? Or are you objecting to the mandatory vaccination (in which case, what do you have against spitting into a vial once a week)? Or are you more of a technocrat, concerned that the ROI (in terms of, say, QUALYs, as economists like to put it) gained through these policies isn't worth the cost? All strike me as viable arguments, but it's always hard to tell which one is being put forward.

tolmasky 5y ago
If we lived in a non-influenza world that suddenly experienced influenza for the first time, we would think it's crazy to not only allow, but many times encourage, sick employees to come to work and basically take out the entire office. It's like just committing to losing a week's worth of productivity across the board. One nice benefit of going more remote is that we can hopefully "personalize" the cold/flu experience vs. making it a de facto office-wide experience, and without the bizarre politics around vaccines/masks/sick-days/etc.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  One would hope. My struggle previously with having a cold is that those can stick around for a week or two - until we set this new precedent for working from home I couldn't just disappear for a week because I didn't feel well so I'd inevitably take a day when it was especially bad, but then I'd come in and spread it around anyways.
  - yourapostasy 5y ago
    I count myself extremely fortunate, as [knock on wood] I rarely get the flu. About once every 4 years on average, and most times when I get it, I'm through it in about 48-72 hours. And my clients are always very understanding and I'm able to still deliver while WFH, except in the very worst depths of about 12-24 hours. There has got to be some genetic component where others have it way worse than I do, and yet still others skate by even better than I do. We know far less about biology than we think we do.
  - tolmasky 5y ago
    One of the unfortunate parts about colds is that the range of experiences seems to be fairly large for different people. It sounds that like me, you've never experiencd a "24 hour bug," and a cold is at minimum a one week affair. Not sure if you've looked into it, but there is some research starting to develop around why this is the case, namely, it might be bacteria that inhabit our nose that take advantage when our defenses are down from a cold: https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20181001/colds-especially-bad-your-nose-might-be-to-blame https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20181001/colds-espec...
    - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
      It seems fairly common for a cold to last a week[1]. They wouldn't be debilitating for the whole time - it'd be a day or two of bad symptoms and then a obnoxious sniffle for another week. But I'd still come into the office and be that guy in the corner who was going sniff sniff sniff the whole day, even with a box of kleenex. Thankfully I haven't had one since I moved to working from home - I've come to realize that I need to be more careful with hand washing and general hand/face hygeine. [1] https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/your-cold-wont-go-away https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/your-cold-wont-go-away
dcolkitt 5y ago
My objection is that it's generally creepy anytime an institution tries to control or monitor the inside of an individual's body. Same reason I find workplace drug tests extremely distasteful. Like you can give me all the arguments you want about why it's a utilitarian positive, but at the end of the day you're asking for a cup of my pee so you can sniff it. That's just fucking weird and dystopian. And to be clear, I'm fully Covid vaccinated and get flu shots religiously. But when an impersonal institution is coercing and coaxing people into injecting something into their body that they don't want, I'm out. I won't vote for those politicians, I won't work with those companies, I won't cooperate with those federal agencies. It's weird, it's creepy, it gives my lizard brain a bad vibe that screams "Get Away From Them FAST!" You can go on all you want about QALYs and ROIs and R0s. But that's about as convincing as a man with a pencil mustache and a windowless van explaining to me why he's qualified to babysit my kids. I'm sorry, I won't do it. I won't eat the bugs.

by md_ 5y ago

tolmasky 5y ago

If we lived in a non-influenza world that suddenly experienced influenza for the first time, we would think it's crazy to not only allow, but many times encourage, sick employees to come to work and basically take out the entire office. It's like just committing to losing a week's worth of productivity across the board. One nice benefit of going more remote is that we can hopefully "personalize" the cold/flu experience vs. making it a de facto office-wide experience, and without the bizarre politics around vaccines/masks/sick-days/etc.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
One would hope. My struggle previously with having a cold is that those can stick around for a week or two - until we set this new precedent for working from home I couldn't just disappear for a week because I didn't feel well so I'd inevitably take a day when it was especially bad, but then I'd come in and spread it around anyways.
- yourapostasy 5y ago
  I count myself extremely fortunate, as [knock on wood] I rarely get the flu. About once every 4 years on average, and most times when I get it, I'm through it in about 48-72 hours. And my clients are always very understanding and I'm able to still deliver while WFH, except in the very worst depths of about 12-24 hours. There has got to be some genetic component where others have it way worse than I do, and yet still others skate by even better than I do. We know far less about biology than we think we do.
- tolmasky 5y ago
  One of the unfortunate parts about colds is that the range of experiences seems to be fairly large for different people. It sounds that like me, you've never experiencd a "24 hour bug," and a cold is at minimum a one week affair. Not sure if you've looked into it, but there is some research starting to develop around why this is the case, namely, it might be bacteria that inhabit our nose that take advantage when our defenses are down from a cold: https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20181001/colds-especially-bad-your-nose-might-be-to-blame https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20181001/colds-espec...
  - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
    It seems fairly common for a cold to last a week[1]. They wouldn't be debilitating for the whole time - it'd be a day or two of bad symptoms and then a obnoxious sniffle for another week. But I'd still come into the office and be that guy in the corner who was going sniff sniff sniff the whole day, even with a box of kleenex. Thankfully I haven't had one since I moved to working from home - I've come to realize that I need to be more careful with hand washing and general hand/face hygeine. [1] https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/your-cold-wont-go-away https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/your-cold-wont-go-away

dcolkitt 5y ago

My objection is that it's generally creepy anytime an institution tries to control or monitor the inside of an individual's body. Same reason I find workplace drug tests extremely distasteful. Like you can give me all the arguments you want about why it's a utilitarian positive, but at the end of the day you're asking for a cup of my pee so you can sniff it. That's just fucking weird and dystopian. And to be clear, I'm fully Covid vaccinated and get flu shots religiously. But when an impersonal institution is coercing and coaxing people into injecting something into their body that they don't want, I'm out. I won't vote for those politicians, I won't work with those companies, I won't cooperate with those federal agencies. It's weird, it's creepy, it gives my lizard brain a bad vibe that screams "Get Away From Them FAST!" You can go on all you want about QALYs and ROIs and R0s. But that's about as convincing as a man with a pencil mustache and a windowless van explaining to me why he's qualified to babysit my kids. I'm sorry, I won't do it. I won't eat the bugs.