5 ms·

We’ve had vaccine mandates (set by the states) to attend school for what, 50 years? Arguments like this are so tired and miss the forest for the trees. Maybe t

We’ve had vaccine mandates (set by the states) to attend school for what, 50 years? Arguments like this are so tired and miss the forest for the trees. Maybe think of the healthcare professionals so burnt out and quitting because people are so indignant to get the shot and end up taking valuable hospital space. I’d take forcing these hold outs (and trampling on their fREeDoMs) to get the shot in exchange for a functioning national healthcare system any day.

bedhead 5y ago
You’re right that some schools have had a vaccine mandate. But neither the private nor public sector ever have. And we didn’t have the accompanying dystopian nightmare as a reality and further threat. So I would say your argument is tired and misses the point entirely, aside from being so brazenly naive to fall for the “if only these last few holdouts got vaccinated everything would be normal!” straw man. Keep on goose stepping…
- halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
  It's amazing how far some people will go (selfishly) to "protect" their perceived "freedom" at the expense of society. There really is something rotten in our society and it's not anything to do with authoritarianism but empathy, good grief.
  - bedhead 5y ago
    Oh my freedom - minor pesky detail as it is - needs to be completely suppressed indefinitely because you're literally a delusional paranoid who can no longer process reality because awwwwww, it's too scawey. Freedom and laws and common decency and general cognitive abilities are only okay unless half of us became deranged with baseless paranoia and become convinced that a minority of people are turning the world into a hellscape no matter how blatantly and demonstrably illogical it is, in which case screw it all, we're doing a 180 and becoming a perpetual police state where everyone hates each other's guts. Keep goose stepping towards "safety"...sounds fun!!!
    - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
      Lol to think masks and getting vaccinated to help society continue to function is as hyperbolic as you portray, what a way to go through life. I hope you find a way to release your anger and learn to help others.
    - stnmtn 5y ago
      Are you free to drive a car drunk? Are you free to shoot into a crowd with a gun? What do you mean by freedom? You live in a country that has laws that restrict your freedom already; this vague grasp that you make toward "freedom" from getting a vaccine is so strange and silly
      - bedhead 5y ago
        Have fun creating your racist medical apartheid state for the benefit of the mentally ill people where faceless bureaucrats arbitrarily make illogical, illegal, and verifiably ineffective rules you must follow so we can all BE SAFE, not only does it make total sense but it sounds like a blast!!! Yay!!! So righteous!!!
        stnmtn 5y ago
        Does it worry you that you seem to be unable to engage with my arguments, and instead dodge them and spout out buzzwords and just virtue signal?
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    Not who you're talking to but yes, I will protect my freedom at your expense in every case, for two reasons. One, I am my first responsibility and you are yours, and two, and far more importantly, the only way me protecting my freedom comes at your expense is if you're trying to violate my rights. If everyone put themselves above society the world would be a much better place.
- steverb 5y ago
  I mean you're correct, in that since > 80% of Americans got all their required vaccines in childhood there was no need to mandate it for adults, but it's a very oblique sort of correctness. And yes, if everyone who was unvaccinated went out today and got the vaccine, the COVID infection rate would drop precipitously.
ctrlp 5y ago
Arguments for thinking of the burnt-out healthcare professionals are tired and miss the forest for the trees. There are many reasons for healthcare professionals feeling burnt-out that pre-date Covid and were exacerbated by it. Where were your tears for them then? You clearly don't value your liberty. (Maybe you don't even understand what it means, given your mockery.) Liberty refers to your right to govern yourself. If you would rather be governed by unelected administrative agencies, you'll be just fine in the new normal.
- halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
  The liberty you think ever existed never did, look around. All the "freedom" advocates against the vax just pick and choose how they define freedom. There's no place in the world you can live as a sovereign citizen, so I'd suggest you get on board or buy a boat and live out on open water because that's the only place you'll be "free".
  - ctrlp 5y ago
    IMO, this type of political nihilism is the natural result of a dispirited populace grown used to delegating its own government to unaccountable managers. I'm not arguing for sovereign citizenship, just regular citizenship. There is a long tradition of political thought regarding liberty and freedom, your cynicism notwithstanding. If you ever find yourself using terms like 'rights', 'free', or 'justice' without quotations then I hope you can resolve your internal contractions.
    - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
      Citizenship comes with strings attached and I'm under no illusion or delusion that I am "free" in the objective sense. I'm also completely ok with that because society has afforded me great freedom(s) that I could not have elsewhere. I _have_ to work a job, I _have_ to pay taxes, I _have_ to enlist if called upon in the draft, I _have_ to be vaccinated to go to school. The inconvenient truth may be that as society becomes more interconnected, the less objective freedoms we have because we're trying to scale humanity and reap the collective benefits. Again, I'm completely ok with that because even in software, we have standards that software must abide by in order to interoperate efficiently. You can't just say "I don't want to conform the society's standards" yet reap the benefits the collective has provided. I'm content with my world view, maybe it's you that needs to look outside of yourself and see what everyone is actually trying to do here (outside of this immediate situation, I mean the species as a whole).
jtbayly 5y ago
Maybe think of the healthcare professionals who are being fired for refusing to get the vaccine because they believe it is medically improper for them to do so.
- halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
  Fired for not comprehending the vary thing they're trying to treat and its effects on society/peers? Sounds like they don't belong in those positions to begin with.

bedhead 5y ago

You’re right that some schools have had a vaccine mandate. But neither the private nor public sector ever have. And we didn’t have the accompanying dystopian nightmare as a reality and further threat. So I would say your argument is tired and misses the point entirely, aside from being so brazenly naive to fall for the “if only these last few holdouts got vaccinated everything would be normal!” straw man. Keep on goose stepping…

halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
It's amazing how far some people will go (selfishly) to "protect" their perceived "freedom" at the expense of society. There really is something rotten in our society and it's not anything to do with authoritarianism but empathy, good grief.
- bedhead 5y ago
  Oh my freedom - minor pesky detail as it is - needs to be completely suppressed indefinitely because you're literally a delusional paranoid who can no longer process reality because awwwwww, it's too scawey. Freedom and laws and common decency and general cognitive abilities are only okay unless half of us became deranged with baseless paranoia and become convinced that a minority of people are turning the world into a hellscape no matter how blatantly and demonstrably illogical it is, in which case screw it all, we're doing a 180 and becoming a perpetual police state where everyone hates each other's guts. Keep goose stepping towards "safety"...sounds fun!!!
  - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
    Lol to think masks and getting vaccinated to help society continue to function is as hyperbolic as you portray, what a way to go through life. I hope you find a way to release your anger and learn to help others.
  - stnmtn 5y ago
    Are you free to drive a car drunk? Are you free to shoot into a crowd with a gun? What do you mean by freedom? You live in a country that has laws that restrict your freedom already; this vague grasp that you make toward "freedom" from getting a vaccine is so strange and silly
    - bedhead 5y ago
      Have fun creating your racist medical apartheid state for the benefit of the mentally ill people where faceless bureaucrats arbitrarily make illogical, illegal, and verifiably ineffective rules you must follow so we can all BE SAFE, not only does it make total sense but it sounds like a blast!!! Yay!!! So righteous!!!
      - stnmtn 5y ago
        Does it worry you that you seem to be unable to engage with my arguments, and instead dodge them and spout out buzzwords and just virtue signal?
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  Not who you're talking to but yes, I will protect my freedom at your expense in every case, for two reasons. One, I am my first responsibility and you are yours, and two, and far more importantly, the only way me protecting my freedom comes at your expense is if you're trying to violate my rights. If everyone put themselves above society the world would be a much better place.
steverb 5y ago
I mean you're correct, in that since > 80% of Americans got all their required vaccines in childhood there was no need to mandate it for adults, but it's a very oblique sort of correctness. And yes, if everyone who was unvaccinated went out today and got the vaccine, the COVID infection rate would drop precipitously.

ctrlp 5y ago

Arguments for thinking of the burnt-out healthcare professionals are tired and miss the forest for the trees. There are many reasons for healthcare professionals feeling burnt-out that pre-date Covid and were exacerbated by it. Where were your tears for them then? You clearly don't value your liberty. (Maybe you don't even understand what it means, given your mockery.) Liberty refers to your right to govern yourself. If you would rather be governed by unelected administrative agencies, you'll be just fine in the new normal.

halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
The liberty you think ever existed never did, look around. All the "freedom" advocates against the vax just pick and choose how they define freedom. There's no place in the world you can live as a sovereign citizen, so I'd suggest you get on board or buy a boat and live out on open water because that's the only place you'll be "free".
- ctrlp 5y ago
  IMO, this type of political nihilism is the natural result of a dispirited populace grown used to delegating its own government to unaccountable managers. I'm not arguing for sovereign citizenship, just regular citizenship. There is a long tradition of political thought regarding liberty and freedom, your cynicism notwithstanding. If you ever find yourself using terms like 'rights', 'free', or 'justice' without quotations then I hope you can resolve your internal contractions.
  - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
    Citizenship comes with strings attached and I'm under no illusion or delusion that I am "free" in the objective sense. I'm also completely ok with that because society has afforded me great freedom(s) that I could not have elsewhere. I _have_ to work a job, I _have_ to pay taxes, I _have_ to enlist if called upon in the draft, I _have_ to be vaccinated to go to school. The inconvenient truth may be that as society becomes more interconnected, the less objective freedoms we have because we're trying to scale humanity and reap the collective benefits. Again, I'm completely ok with that because even in software, we have standards that software must abide by in order to interoperate efficiently. You can't just say "I don't want to conform the society's standards" yet reap the benefits the collective has provided. I'm content with my world view, maybe it's you that needs to look outside of yourself and see what everyone is actually trying to do here (outside of this immediate situation, I mean the species as a whole).

jtbayly 5y ago

Maybe think of the healthcare professionals who are being fired for refusing to get the vaccine because they believe it is medically improper for them to do so.

halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
Fired for not comprehending the vary thing they're trying to treat and its effects on society/peers? Sounds like they don't belong in those positions to begin with.