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> are taking up a non-insignificant portion of available hospital beds Healthy, non obese young people do not get hospitalized by this disease at any significa

> are taking up a non-insignificant portion of available hospital beds Healthy, non obese young people do not get hospitalized by this disease at any significant rate at all, most aren't even aware they got it. If you're a healthy young person you have rationality on your side to object to a vaccine. Especially one that is trying to hit a moving target as covid is probably now another mutating flu that will be around indefinitely. Especially because you still pass on the disease vaccinated or not.

jmnicolas 5y ago
Fwiw I know an overweight alcoholic 65 yo woman, cancer survivor, diabetic and has cardiac problems (she had to be in a wheelchair for a couple years). Oh and she's a chain smoker too. She's the perfect COVID victim. She got it twice, even though it was quite bad never had to be hospitalized and her health is now not worse than before.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
steverb 5y ago
And yet they can have enough of a viral load to pass it along to any non-healthy people they come in contact with. Which is why this NOT a personal health issue, it's a public health issue. As I have explained to several of my children's young friends "you are correct, COVID will probably not make you sick, but how will you feel when you find out you killed your grandmother by giving it to her".
- poorjohnmacafee 5y ago
  As others have mentioned here you pass it along vaccinated or not. You can also have the vulnerable population take precautions, not the young population. To be frank what kind of sick society pushes the young population to take on risk (novel vaccine incomplete clinical trials, rare heart inflammation issues documented, spike protein membrane break off issue, etc) to protect the elderly population? This is the first time societies have ever called for risking the youth for the elderly and it's not morally right.
  - steverb 5y ago
    And as other others have pointed it out, you're much less likely to pass it along, get sick, be hospitalized if you have had the vaccination. And you're comparing a very small risk for the youth (getting a vaccine) versus a very large risk for the elderly. They're your grandparents though, so I guess that's your decision.
    - poorjohnmacafee 5y ago
      Instead of emotionally reducing it to "don't kill grandma" you could join a reasonable discourse on the topic and look at other factors like... The at-risk can get vaccinated - healthy youth don't get hospitalized - there are antibody and drug therapeutics available - youth don't need to risk novel vaccine adverse affects (they are documented - they are more prevalent in young than old) - you still spread it equally significantly vaccinated or not - the vaccine does not give robust coverage against new strains - natural immunity gives far more robust coverage against new strains than the vaccine (almost suggesting exposure for the low-risk is a better societal outcome). Hand waving "all youth must get vaccinated" is not a rational course of action.
      - steverb 5y ago
        At this point, anyone who cares to know the facts already know them. The only arguments that will convince the hold outs are pathos. It's your grandmother. You can choose how to treat her. Also, the immunization provides more robust immunity than having had Covid. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-pr...
        poorjohnmacafee 5y ago
        You're completely wrong about robustness against strains. Via mrna vaccine your body only learns how to target the spike proteins that (inadvertently) break off the cell membranes and travel throughout your body. On the other hand actually getting covid your body explores various vectors against the virus not just spike proteins.

jmnicolas 5y ago

Fwiw I know an overweight alcoholic 65 yo woman, cancer survivor, diabetic and has cardiac problems (she had to be in a wheelchair for a couple years). Oh and she's a chain smoker too. She's the perfect COVID victim. She got it twice, even though it was quite bad never had to be hospitalized and her health is now not worse than before.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

steverb 5y ago

And yet they can have enough of a viral load to pass it along to any non-healthy people they come in contact with. Which is why this NOT a personal health issue, it's a public health issue. As I have explained to several of my children's young friends "you are correct, COVID will probably not make you sick, but how will you feel when you find out you killed your grandmother by giving it to her".

poorjohnmacafee 5y ago
As others have mentioned here you pass it along vaccinated or not. You can also have the vulnerable population take precautions, not the young population. To be frank what kind of sick society pushes the young population to take on risk (novel vaccine incomplete clinical trials, rare heart inflammation issues documented, spike protein membrane break off issue, etc) to protect the elderly population? This is the first time societies have ever called for risking the youth for the elderly and it's not morally right.
- steverb 5y ago
  And as other others have pointed it out, you're much less likely to pass it along, get sick, be hospitalized if you have had the vaccination. And you're comparing a very small risk for the youth (getting a vaccine) versus a very large risk for the elderly. They're your grandparents though, so I guess that's your decision.
  - poorjohnmacafee 5y ago
    Instead of emotionally reducing it to "don't kill grandma" you could join a reasonable discourse on the topic and look at other factors like... The at-risk can get vaccinated - healthy youth don't get hospitalized - there are antibody and drug therapeutics available - youth don't need to risk novel vaccine adverse affects (they are documented - they are more prevalent in young than old) - you still spread it equally significantly vaccinated or not - the vaccine does not give robust coverage against new strains - natural immunity gives far more robust coverage against new strains than the vaccine (almost suggesting exposure for the low-risk is a better societal outcome). Hand waving "all youth must get vaccinated" is not a rational course of action.
    - steverb 5y ago
      At this point, anyone who cares to know the facts already know them. The only arguments that will convince the hold outs are pathos. It's your grandmother. You can choose how to treat her. Also, the immunization provides more robust immunity than having had Covid. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-pr...
      - poorjohnmacafee 5y ago
        You're completely wrong about robustness against strains. Via mrna vaccine your body only learns how to target the spike proteins that (inadvertently) break off the cell membranes and travel throughout your body. On the other hand actually getting covid your body explores various vectors against the virus not just spike proteins.