4 ms·

Many countries with very high vaccination rates, Spain and the UK for example, have much higher case numbers this summer than last: https://ourworldindata.org/

by whater 5y ago

Many countries with very high vaccination rates, Spain and the UK for example, have much higher case numbers this summer than last: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases And testing rates are probably even lower now that many people have been vaccinated. This argument is not going to convince the unvaccinated, who are tired of incoherent "scientific" information that changes every month. The field of virology is apparently in its infancy.

marcus_holmes 5y ago
> UK for example, have much higher case numbers this summer than last but much lower hospitalisation rates [0]. Which is the key point of "flattening the curve" if you remember. We're not going to get out of lockdown measures until the hospitals can cope with the load, and the vaccinations are reducing the load on hospitals. Get vaccinated now. https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
mnd999 5y ago
Anyone expecting the scientific establishment (or in fact anyone) to have a clear, consistent and coherent picture right the way through a pandemic caused by a novel virus is being unrealistic. The advice changes as we know better what we’re up against and anyone who expects to have all the answers is, frankly a fool. Look at the data, follow the science and do the best you can.
- lpyt 5y ago
  Corona viruses aren't novel, the common cold is one of them. There were no accurate spread models in 2020, no studies how masks would affect the spread of the common cold. There was ridiculous advice that the famous droplets would sink to the ground before covering a distance > 1.5 meters, that masks would not help at all and much more. Now they admit that the virus is airborne! Sorry, #FollowTheScience slogans and calling others fools does not help.
  - throwaway210222 5y ago
    > There was ridiculous advice that the famous droplets would sink to the ground before covering a distance > 1.5 meters, This was based on experience with the original SARS virus. Take this 2003 paper for example: "Effectiveness of precautions against droplets and contact in prevention of nosocomial transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)" [1] It was a case control study in a Hong Kong hospital that concluded: "Practice of droplets precaution and contact precaution is adequate in significantly reducing the risk of infection …. The protective role of the mask suggests … infection is transmitted by droplets." Following the science really, really does help. You just need to do it; fools of course don't. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12737864/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12737864/
    - throwaway129821 5y ago
      Your study, while pushing the large droplet theory, asserts that masks are useful which the official science denied in the beginning of 2020. Droplets themselves are being questioned now: https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(21)00869-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(21)00869-2/full... Have fun following the science! Reading might help.
pibechorro 5y ago
Ding ding. Not to mention natural immunity is much better (6x to 10x) and longer lasting. I already got Covid (a mild flu for 2 days and tired for 5), there is zero benefit to inject, and the more my arm is twisted, the more I will resist.
- ImPostingOnHN 5y ago
  >the more my arm is twisted, the more I will resist the clinical term for this is "Oppositional Defiant Disorder"
  - LinuxBender 5y ago
    My personal view of ODD is that it is a positive trait. I prefer to be around people with ODD.
  - acutis_fan 5y ago
    Also "Sluggish Schizophrenia"
amanaplanacanal 5y ago
I would say that the field of medicine is still in its infancy. All we have is whatever our best understanding is today. It could all change tomorrow.
rualca 5y ago
> (...) who are tired of incoherent "scientific" information that changes every month. I don't know where you get your information but I saw absolutely zero change in the info on any of the major vaccines since the very same day they've been announced. From day 1 the message was always that these vaccines trained the immune system to lower the severity of Covid symptoms, but otherwise we could still catch it and spread it. Then only significant change that popped up since last year was due to the inception of the so called Delta variant, which is an entirely new development and had just enough mutations to lower vaccine effectiveness. However, the mRNA vaccines were, from the very start, described as custom tailored to the existing variants, and we're expected to show a drop in effectiveness if the wrong kind of variant occurred. Personally, when I received my jabs, in both occasions I received a small flier making it quite clear that the current Covid vaccines only trained the immune system to have a fighting chance against Covid, but we were still vulnerable to catch and spread Covid and thus we should continue to practice basic health and safety precautions. So I really wonder where you got your info, because none of what you said correlates with reality.

by whater 5y ago

marcus_holmes 5y ago

> UK for example, have much higher case numbers this summer than last but much lower hospitalisation rates [0]. Which is the key point of "flattening the curve" if you remember. We're not going to get out of lockdown measures until the hospitals can cope with the load, and the vaccinations are reducing the load on hospitals. Get vaccinated now. https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

mnd999 5y ago

Anyone expecting the scientific establishment (or in fact anyone) to have a clear, consistent and coherent picture right the way through a pandemic caused by a novel virus is being unrealistic. The advice changes as we know better what we’re up against and anyone who expects to have all the answers is, frankly a fool. Look at the data, follow the science and do the best you can.

lpyt 5y ago
Corona viruses aren't novel, the common cold is one of them. There were no accurate spread models in 2020, no studies how masks would affect the spread of the common cold. There was ridiculous advice that the famous droplets would sink to the ground before covering a distance > 1.5 meters, that masks would not help at all and much more. Now they admit that the virus is airborne! Sorry, #FollowTheScience slogans and calling others fools does not help.
- throwaway210222 5y ago
  > There was ridiculous advice that the famous droplets would sink to the ground before covering a distance > 1.5 meters, This was based on experience with the original SARS virus. Take this 2003 paper for example: "Effectiveness of precautions against droplets and contact in prevention of nosocomial transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)" [1] It was a case control study in a Hong Kong hospital that concluded: "Practice of droplets precaution and contact precaution is adequate in significantly reducing the risk of infection …. The protective role of the mask suggests … infection is transmitted by droplets." Following the science really, really does help. You just need to do it; fools of course don't. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12737864/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12737864/
  - throwaway129821 5y ago
    Your study, while pushing the large droplet theory, asserts that masks are useful which the official science denied in the beginning of 2020. Droplets themselves are being questioned now: https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(21)00869-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(21)00869-2/full... Have fun following the science! Reading might help.

pibechorro 5y ago

Ding ding. Not to mention natural immunity is much better (6x to 10x) and longer lasting. I already got Covid (a mild flu for 2 days and tired for 5), there is zero benefit to inject, and the more my arm is twisted, the more I will resist.

ImPostingOnHN 5y ago
>the more my arm is twisted, the more I will resist the clinical term for this is "Oppositional Defiant Disorder"
- LinuxBender 5y ago
  My personal view of ODD is that it is a positive trait. I prefer to be around people with ODD.
- acutis_fan 5y ago
  Also "Sluggish Schizophrenia"

amanaplanacanal 5y ago

I would say that the field of medicine is still in its infancy. All we have is whatever our best understanding is today. It could all change tomorrow.

rualca 5y ago

> (...) who are tired of incoherent "scientific" information that changes every month. I don't know where you get your information but I saw absolutely zero change in the info on any of the major vaccines since the very same day they've been announced. From day 1 the message was always that these vaccines trained the immune system to lower the severity of Covid symptoms, but otherwise we could still catch it and spread it. Then only significant change that popped up since last year was due to the inception of the so called Delta variant, which is an entirely new development and had just enough mutations to lower vaccine effectiveness. However, the mRNA vaccines were, from the very start, described as custom tailored to the existing variants, and we're expected to show a drop in effectiveness if the wrong kind of variant occurred. Personally, when I received my jabs, in both occasions I received a small flier making it quite clear that the current Covid vaccines only trained the immune system to have a fighting chance against Covid, but we were still vulnerable to catch and spread Covid and thus we should continue to practice basic health and safety precautions. So I really wonder where you got your info, because none of what you said correlates with reality.