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The Magic Behind the Scenes of Docker Desktop

38 points by GordonS 5y ago

jallasprit 5y ago
I wish Docker Desktop on Windows wouldn’t fail to start or hang at «Docker Engine is starting» every other boot. I find myself having to constantly open Task Manager to kill off Docker processes.
- ninjaoxygen 5y ago
  Out of interest, do you have Kubernetes enabled in Docker for Desktop? I had regular problems very like yours, then one day it just stopped happening, suddenly WSL2 Docker Desktop worked fine. I'm suspecting it might be around the time I turned Kubernetes off again?
stedaniels 5y ago
It would be handy if the _magic_ would stop it pegging the allocated WSL2 cores to 100% and leaving my laptop fan screaming.
- pletnes 5y ago
  The kubernetes feature makes this problem much worse in my experience. Do you have it disabled?
- doctor_eval 5y ago
  Here I was thinking only Mac users had this problem. I figured it must run really great on Windows and this was how Docker must have become successful. I admire the work Docker has done but they have not solved this basic product usability problem after all these years; and now they want us to pay. It doesn’t feel right to me.
  - GordonS 5y ago
    I've been running it on Windows since it existed. In the beginning, it was very buggy indeed - felt like I was constantly having to reset to factory defaults because of networking issues, and every other release had an issue with pegging the CPU at 100% For the past year or so though, it's been rock solid for me - I don't recall a single issue. Meanwhile when I need to use my Mac... Docker still pegs the CPU and makes the whole machine almost unusable.
- indemnity 5y ago
  This is like feature #1, and it’s not there, it’s much worse on macOS, It’s why I will be running podman on my Mac as soon as I can get compose working.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
cja 5y ago
It'll be magic when it can minimise to system tray
aquir 5y ago
This article reeks from self-promotion. Based on my experience of Windows it is much more stable to install Docker standalone as a service w/o the Desktop application. The Docker cli is easy enough to manage containers/volumes etc.
- edoceo 5y ago
  Well, I didn't even know we could do it via CLI on Windows. Thanks!
  - aquir 5y ago
    Sure, no worries. You can use this (PowerShell) script (on Windows) to install the latest version w/o the Docker Desktop: https://pastebin.com/Gzmstp3V https://pastebin.com/Gzmstp3V
- nodejs_rulez_1 5y ago
  > The Docker cli is easy enough to manage containers/volumes etc. Yeah, go CLI! Who said we don't deserve to be stuck with 1980s "UI" today? Nobody!
  - johannes1234321 5y ago
    Modern command line interfaces evolved a lot since they 80ies. As this is about Windows take a look at PowerShell. Automation of command line also is a lot simpler than GUI tools.
- doctor_eval 5y ago
  Well, in their defence, it literally is self promotion.
eurasiantiger 5y ago
> A secure, optimized Linux VM that runs Linux tools and containers Nothing new under the sun, this was already possible with docker-toolbox. > Seamless plumbing into the host OS giving containers access to the filesystem and networking Lol. The native filesystem mounts are like 10x slower than on Linux, making them useless. FUSE helps somewhat but causes other issues, especially when mounting lots of files that change often. > Bundled container tools including Kubernetes, Docker Compose, buildkit, scanning Thanks a lot, previously I had the choice of installing these myself as needed instead of having them all, always, at the newest versions. > Docker Dashboard for visually managing all your container content I never use it for anything since all my environments are managed by scripted docker-compose. > A simple one click installer for Mac and Windows Who is it for, exactly? Developers can handle installing things. > Preconfigured sane and secure defaults Lol, no. The ”sane defaults” always lead to containers getting killed by OOM. Security is also dubious, since the default network is shared between all containers. Also have you ever tried setting up to route all traffic through a VPN because that is nigh impossible. > Automatic incremental updates to keep your system running securely By showering free tier users with update nags that can only be snoozed and not skipped. Too often the updates also break something.
- mclion 5y ago
  Why so bitter? Most complaints are just wrong... :) Why should somebody not upgrade packages to the last stable ones (and patch exploits) and why a good developer should be also a good DevOps? That's not like real life works. So what of your complains are not because of bitterness (that they want to charge big companies for using what they pay programmers to develop)? :)
  - natch 5y ago
    Can’t speak for OP, but the time they spend on developing needless GUI interfaces to tools that already have perfectly good CLI commands represents a wasted opportunity to do more worthwhile things or save costs.
  - alin23 5y ago
    This is exactly why I got sick of selling my own app [1] and stopped developing other ideas. I gave people a fairly complex solution in an easy to use package for free because I had no idea other users would pay for it. Everyone was happy to use it and ask for features and send emails with “can you please do this in this other way that I like”. So I continued developing it because positive feedback gets you in this loop where you don’t realize how much time you’re spending on things that you don’t even need in this app and are only to please other users. When I realized I just spent 4 years on developing all these features I don’t use and there’s a real need for this solution in the world, I started asking for money on advanced features to at least recover some of that development time. I also added a download link to the last free version of the app for people that don’t need the new paid version. That’s when hate mail started. “Why the heck would you ask me to pay for the same features that were previously free?” and “lol what a stupid app, you turned it into nagware, I will just use a cracked version from now on” What’s the solution here? Just develop a hard skin and continue doing the same thing until people stop complaining and get used to your product having a monetary value? [1](https://lunar.fyi https://lunar.fyi)
goldenkey 5y ago
It'll be magic when it isn't a laggy freeze/crash-prone piece of junk. I can't count the number of times it has bugged out on me. It's way better to just install docker normally and use the CLI.
alwaysanon 5y ago
On Windows you can re-create this ‘magic’ pretty easily (on the WSL-less Mac its a bit harder). I wrote a blog post about it. https://jason-umiker.medium.com/replacing-docker-desktop-with-wsl2-and-or-rancher-desktop-on-windows-5e036f9dc3a4 https://jason-umiker.medium.com/replacing-docker-desktop-wit...
ctvo 5y ago
My immediate smart ass reaction when I saw the headline was it must take a lot of effort to make it so slow and cumbersome. Read through the article and the mystery still remains on why it’s so slow and cumbersome for what it supposedly does. On MacOS I have to restart it every other day for no apparent reason. Upgrading versions sometimes breaks working setups (new experimental options enabled by default until you find and disable them). I don’t get any joy in using the product. This is not what great dev tools should feel like. But we need to align on something and picked this as part of our workflow. Docker: If I make time to read about Podman and come up with a strategy to migrate my team I’m out.
toomanyducks 5y ago
So... it's a GUI package manager with extra steps?
sebazzz 5y ago
It is unfortunate that Visual Studio requires Docker Desktop to allow the nice integration that is there.

38 points by GordonS 5y ago

I wish Docker Desktop on Windows wouldn’t fail to start or hang at «Docker Engine is starting» every other boot. I find myself having to constantly open Task Manager to kill off Docker processes.

ninjaoxygen 5y ago
Out of interest, do you have Kubernetes enabled in Docker for Desktop? I had regular problems very like yours, then one day it just stopped happening, suddenly WSL2 Docker Desktop worked fine. I'm suspecting it might be around the time I turned Kubernetes off again?

stedaniels 5y ago

It would be handy if the _magic_ would stop it pegging the allocated WSL2 cores to 100% and leaving my laptop fan screaming.

pletnes 5y ago
The kubernetes feature makes this problem much worse in my experience. Do you have it disabled?
doctor_eval 5y ago
Here I was thinking only Mac users had this problem. I figured it must run really great on Windows and this was how Docker must have become successful. I admire the work Docker has done but they have not solved this basic product usability problem after all these years; and now they want us to pay. It doesn’t feel right to me.
- GordonS 5y ago
  I've been running it on Windows since it existed. In the beginning, it was very buggy indeed - felt like I was constantly having to reset to factory defaults because of networking issues, and every other release had an issue with pegging the CPU at 100% For the past year or so though, it's been rock solid for me - I don't recall a single issue. Meanwhile when I need to use my Mac... Docker still pegs the CPU and makes the whole machine almost unusable.
indemnity 5y ago
This is like feature #1, and it’s not there, it’s much worse on macOS, It’s why I will be running podman on my Mac as soon as I can get compose working.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

cja 5y ago

It'll be magic when it can minimise to system tray

aquir 5y ago

This article reeks from self-promotion. Based on my experience of Windows it is much more stable to install Docker standalone as a service w/o the Desktop application. The Docker cli is easy enough to manage containers/volumes etc.

edoceo 5y ago
Well, I didn't even know we could do it via CLI on Windows. Thanks!
- aquir 5y ago
  Sure, no worries. You can use this (PowerShell) script (on Windows) to install the latest version w/o the Docker Desktop: https://pastebin.com/Gzmstp3V https://pastebin.com/Gzmstp3V
nodejs_rulez_1 5y ago
> The Docker cli is easy enough to manage containers/volumes etc. Yeah, go CLI! Who said we don't deserve to be stuck with 1980s "UI" today? Nobody!
- johannes1234321 5y ago
  Modern command line interfaces evolved a lot since they 80ies. As this is about Windows take a look at PowerShell. Automation of command line also is a lot simpler than GUI tools.
doctor_eval 5y ago
Well, in their defence, it literally is self promotion.

eurasiantiger 5y ago

> A secure, optimized Linux VM that runs Linux tools and containers Nothing new under the sun, this was already possible with docker-toolbox. > Seamless plumbing into the host OS giving containers access to the filesystem and networking Lol. The native filesystem mounts are like 10x slower than on Linux, making them useless. FUSE helps somewhat but causes other issues, especially when mounting lots of files that change often. > Bundled container tools including Kubernetes, Docker Compose, buildkit, scanning Thanks a lot, previously I had the choice of installing these myself as needed instead of having them all, always, at the newest versions. > Docker Dashboard for visually managing all your container content I never use it for anything since all my environments are managed by scripted docker-compose. > A simple one click installer for Mac and Windows Who is it for, exactly? Developers can handle installing things. > Preconfigured sane and secure defaults Lol, no. The ”sane defaults” always lead to containers getting killed by OOM. Security is also dubious, since the default network is shared between all containers. Also have you ever tried setting up to route all traffic through a VPN because that is nigh impossible. > Automatic incremental updates to keep your system running securely By showering free tier users with update nags that can only be snoozed and not skipped. Too often the updates also break something.

mclion 5y ago
Why so bitter? Most complaints are just wrong... :) Why should somebody not upgrade packages to the last stable ones (and patch exploits) and why a good developer should be also a good DevOps? That's not like real life works. So what of your complains are not because of bitterness (that they want to charge big companies for using what they pay programmers to develop)? :)
- natch 5y ago
  Can’t speak for OP, but the time they spend on developing needless GUI interfaces to tools that already have perfectly good CLI commands represents a wasted opportunity to do more worthwhile things or save costs.
- alin23 5y ago
  This is exactly why I got sick of selling my own app [1] and stopped developing other ideas. I gave people a fairly complex solution in an easy to use package for free because I had no idea other users would pay for it. Everyone was happy to use it and ask for features and send emails with “can you please do this in this other way that I like”. So I continued developing it because positive feedback gets you in this loop where you don’t realize how much time you’re spending on things that you don’t even need in this app and are only to please other users. When I realized I just spent 4 years on developing all these features I don’t use and there’s a real need for this solution in the world, I started asking for money on advanced features to at least recover some of that development time. I also added a download link to the last free version of the app for people that don’t need the new paid version. That’s when hate mail started. “Why the heck would you ask me to pay for the same features that were previously free?” and “lol what a stupid app, you turned it into nagware, I will just use a cracked version from now on” What’s the solution here? Just develop a hard skin and continue doing the same thing until people stop complaining and get used to your product having a monetary value? [1](https://lunar.fyi https://lunar.fyi)

goldenkey 5y ago

It'll be magic when it isn't a laggy freeze/crash-prone piece of junk. I can't count the number of times it has bugged out on me. It's way better to just install docker normally and use the CLI.

alwaysanon 5y ago

On Windows you can re-create this ‘magic’ pretty easily (on the WSL-less Mac its a bit harder). I wrote a blog post about it. https://jason-umiker.medium.com/replacing-docker-desktop-with-wsl2-and-or-rancher-desktop-on-windows-5e036f9dc3a4 https://jason-umiker.medium.com/replacing-docker-desktop-wit...

ctvo 5y ago

My immediate smart ass reaction when I saw the headline was it must take a lot of effort to make it so slow and cumbersome. Read through the article and the mystery still remains on why it’s so slow and cumbersome for what it supposedly does. On MacOS I have to restart it every other day for no apparent reason. Upgrading versions sometimes breaks working setups (new experimental options enabled by default until you find and disable them). I don’t get any joy in using the product. This is not what great dev tools should feel like. But we need to align on something and picked this as part of our workflow. Docker: If I make time to read about Podman and come up with a strategy to migrate my team I’m out.

toomanyducks 5y ago

So... it's a GUI package manager with extra steps?

sebazzz 5y ago

It is unfortunate that Visual Studio requires Docker Desktop to allow the nice integration that is there.