4 ms·

Castle Bravo was the first weapon of its kind. But moreover, many of those people likely died due to complications down the road. The US government has done a

Castle Bravo was the first weapon of its kind. But moreover, many of those people likely died due to complications down the road. The US government has done a poor job of accurately tracking the deaths of even US service members years after their exposure to radiation. You might not die right then, but you'll live a significantly abridged life.

fifilura 5y ago
>> you're already dead > many of those people likely died due to complications down the road Nitpick - with that interpretation of "already dead" I was "already dead" from the day I was born.
- JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
  “If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.” -Carl Sagan
- nkrisc 5y ago
  The implied difference is that the radioactive fallout is an unnatural event that will directly lead to your untimely demise, while being “dead” the moment you’re born is not useful to any discussion. I thought it was pretty clear what they meant. Your interpretation is not useful for anything, so I have to assume that’s not what they meant.
  - fifilura 5y ago
    I think it is relevant to understand whether "being outside in ash cloud" leads to more or less instant death (1 day - 4 weeks as is typical with acute radiation syndrome) as my interpretation of the original post implied. Or cancer 10 years down the road (unless you die of a car accident before that, or are treated with modern transplant/chemo therapies)
    - nkrisc 5y ago
      Yes it’s not very precise language, but I believe the implication is death very shortly after, based on how I’ve heard similar language used in the past.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
> The US government has done a poor job of accurately tracking the deaths of even US service members years after their exposure to radiation. Meanwhile, the US performed unethical radiation experiments on its own citizens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States#Human_radiation_experiments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentatio... This one is particularly noteworthy: > In 1957, atmospheric nuclear explosions in Nevada, which were part of Operation Plumbbob > determined to have released enough radiation to have caused from 11,000 to 212,000 excess cases of thyroid cancer > leading to between 1,100 and 21,000 deaths Do you really need enemies when you have such a government looking out for your well being?
- nickff 5y ago
  >"Do you really need enemies when you have such a government looking out for your well being?" Governments (via their agents) of the 20th century killed more than 7x more people than were murdered by fellow civilians. This is not counting wars.
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    Citation requested.
    - achenatx 5y ago
      60-80 million china 20 million russia 8 million germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide#:~:text=After%20studying%20over%208%2C000%20reports,than%20have%20died%20in%20battle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide#:~:text=After%20study....
      - dredmorbius 5y ago
        At least two of those occurred during wartime. It's difficult to differentiate between "government" and "business", particularly where the two entities are strongly interrelated, as with both the Nazi and Soviet states. You've omitted the case of Britain, who killed off a quarter the population of a country, largely through business interests: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) Estimates of deaths in the business-operated slave trade run as high as 60 million, at a time when the total global population was 500m -- 1 billion (1/16th to 1/8 of today's population, very roughly 1/6 to 1/2 that of the WWI--WWII period). Recordkeeping was not especialy precise, as contrasted to the IBM-tallied slaughter of Jews by Nazi Germany. http://www.worldfuturefund.org/Reports/Slavedeathtoll/slaverydeathtoll.html http://www.worldfuturefund.org/Reports/Slavedeathtoll/slaver... https://besacenter.org/ibm-holocaust/ https://besacenter.org/ibm-holocaust/ Discussions of who's to blame and fingering "government" gloss over far too much to be especially meaningful except in ideological debate.

fifilura 5y ago

>> you're already dead > many of those people likely died due to complications down the road Nitpick - with that interpretation of "already dead" I was "already dead" from the day I was born.

JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.” -Carl Sagan
nkrisc 5y ago
The implied difference is that the radioactive fallout is an unnatural event that will directly lead to your untimely demise, while being “dead” the moment you’re born is not useful to any discussion. I thought it was pretty clear what they meant. Your interpretation is not useful for anything, so I have to assume that’s not what they meant.
- fifilura 5y ago
  I think it is relevant to understand whether "being outside in ash cloud" leads to more or less instant death (1 day - 4 weeks as is typical with acute radiation syndrome) as my interpretation of the original post implied. Or cancer 10 years down the road (unless you die of a car accident before that, or are treated with modern transplant/chemo therapies)
  - nkrisc 5y ago
    Yes it’s not very precise language, but I believe the implication is death very shortly after, based on how I’ve heard similar language used in the past.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

> The US government has done a poor job of accurately tracking the deaths of even US service members years after their exposure to radiation. Meanwhile, the US performed unethical radiation experiments on its own citizens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States#Human_radiation_experiments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentatio... This one is particularly noteworthy: > In 1957, atmospheric nuclear explosions in Nevada, which were part of Operation Plumbbob > determined to have released enough radiation to have caused from 11,000 to 212,000 excess cases of thyroid cancer > leading to between 1,100 and 21,000 deaths Do you really need enemies when you have such a government looking out for your well being?

nickff 5y ago
>"Do you really need enemies when you have such a government looking out for your well being?" Governments (via their agents) of the 20th century killed more than 7x more people than were murdered by fellow civilians. This is not counting wars.
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  Citation requested.
  - achenatx 5y ago
    60-80 million china 20 million russia 8 million germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide#:~:text=After%20studying%20over%208%2C000%20reports,than%20have%20died%20in%20battle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide#:~:text=After%20study....
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      At least two of those occurred during wartime. It's difficult to differentiate between "government" and "business", particularly where the two entities are strongly interrelated, as with both the Nazi and Soviet states. You've omitted the case of Britain, who killed off a quarter the population of a country, largely through business interests: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) Estimates of deaths in the business-operated slave trade run as high as 60 million, at a time when the total global population was 500m -- 1 billion (1/16th to 1/8 of today's population, very roughly 1/6 to 1/2 that of the WWI--WWII period). Recordkeeping was not especialy precise, as contrasted to the IBM-tallied slaughter of Jews by Nazi Germany. http://www.worldfuturefund.org/Reports/Slavedeathtoll/slaverydeathtoll.html http://www.worldfuturefund.org/Reports/Slavedeathtoll/slaver... https://besacenter.org/ibm-holocaust/ https://besacenter.org/ibm-holocaust/ Discussions of who's to blame and fingering "government" gloss over far too much to be especially meaningful except in ideological debate.