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A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then police raided his house
- lrae 5y agoI didn't want to editorialize the original title, but to add to it: 1) The insult used was "pimmel", german for "dick". 2) According to netzpolitik.org, the offender was summoned by the police before that, did show up, and did confirm there that it was his account. https://netzpolitik.org/2021/andy-grote-was-fuer-eine-pimmelei/ https://netzpolitik.org/2021/andy-grote-was-fuer-eine-pimmel... [german]
- montenegrohugo 5y agoThe wordplay in that article is just fantastic. German has this specific kind of humor that is hard to describe, but definitely stands out. Great read, thanks for linking it.
- trhway 5y agoAnecdotally, looking up Rammstein lyrics translation the wordplay there seems pretty impressive to me.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago> I didn't want to editorialize the original title Somebody needs to - the title on Hacker News says the opposite of what the article title says. HN: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then raided his house. Reality: A Twitter user insulted a German politician, then had his house raided by the police.
- thaumasiotes 5y agoThis is one of the cases where I'm going to ask why I'm downvoted. The HN title says the opposite of what the WaPo title says. And not only is this not a problem, but I'm causing problems by pointing it out?
- sho_hn 5y agoI assume downvoters figured your point is obvious, but I found your comment valuable and useful.
- sillysaurusx 5y agoI didn’t downvote, but I’m not sure what’s going on with HN today —- this is the third article I’ve seen with lots of HN metacomments. That said, they’re probably right that the title should be fixed. It’s just getting a bit... well. I just wish we would all be a little more grateful for how much effort a site like HN takes to run. It’s also not so easy to get good moderators with tasteful editing abilities; imagine what a disaster it would be if Reddit let a subset of mods control most titles on /r/all. I suspect the title is broken in this case because the title gardeners are taking a well-deserved break, hopefully enjoying the evening with their families.
- throwawayswede 5y agoNot to take away from your comment, you're free to think and feel as you like, but you shouldn't really be trying to cram your views down other people's throats. You can feel "appreciative" and find wholesome justifications for anything basically (that includes the heinous stuff) but we don't all do it all the time. Feel free to do it as much as you like, but let others feel rightfully annoyed. I doubt anyone is blaming HN for this, but the person who posted the link (and possibly the original WaPo title).
- croes 5y agoIt wasn't even the house of the Twitter user.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago...yes it was.
- morsch 5y agoWell, it had been, but it's not anymore. He moved.
- thaumasiotes 5y agoIf he's willing to call it his house, we should be too. > "My house was searched at 6:00 this morning. Six officers in the apartment," wrote the suspect
- morsch 5y agoHe doesn't, that's just an editorialized translation[1], the straight Google translation doesn't have the possessive pronoun: "There was a house search at 6:00 this morning. 6 officers in the apartment." But we can refer to it as his strawberry cake for all I care, as long as it's understood that he doesn't actually live there anymore[2]. This wasn't as widely reported as the original story, and along with the fact that the guy had already talked to the authorities and admitted to the foul deed, I found it made the whole thing even more outrageous. [1] this is the original tweet https://nitter.net/pauli_zoo/status/1435494328894431233#m https://nitter.net/pauli_zoo/status/1435494328894431233#m [2] https://www.heise.de/news/Du-bist-so-1-Pimmel-Hamburgs-Innensenator-jetzt-bekannt-wie-nie-6188373.html https://www.heise.de/news/Du-bist-so-1-Pimmel-Hamburgs-Innen...
- croes 5y agoNo, he was registered there but it was the apartment of his ex-girlfriend and he did not live there anymore. https://taz.de/Hausdurchsuchung-wegen-eines-Tweets/!5799732/ https://taz.de/Hausdurchsuchung-wegen-eines-Tweets/!5799732/
- lrae 5y agoYeah, didn't even realize earlier that something ate the Police. Can't edit it myself anymore, though. Should've editorialized it after all and put more context into it, wouldn't have happened then.
- DenisM 5y agoGerman politician orders raid on the house of his foul-mouthed opponent. Kids these days…
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- idworks1 5y agoBefore the coup that happened a few days ago, my country was casually known as a dictatorship. You don't insult politicians, not especially on a public place. When you are home, you check if the coast is clear before you call the president names. Otherwise you get an armed and humiliating response, if not tragic. Looks like lots of democratic countries are looking at us with envy and for inspiration these days.
- philipov 5y agowhich country?
- hcayless 5y agoGuinea is the only recent coup I know of https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-58461436 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-58461436
- cheesetable 5y agoNote that different people have different criteria for a coup. For example, in the US in Jan 2021, there was a riot that some call a coup, and some do not. Brazil might also count. I am not aware of the details.
- philipov 5y agoYes, I think a coup implies that it was perpetrated by people already in government, such as the military, or an opposition party. A riot by the populace that aims to violently remove or influence the government is more properly called an insurrection, a la the French Revolution. People already part of the government could be involved in triggering an insurrection, such as with the Jacobins involved in the Insurrection of 1792, but it still counts as an insurrection and not a coup because it is carried out by the population, not by forces working for the government, such as assassins or the military.
- rob74 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- hcykb 5y agoThere's no practical right to free speech in the EU. You americans don't know how easy you have it. Defend your rights!
- jimmaswell 5y agoAnd as an American, Germans/Australians/etc. will still insist they're more free than me because of something arbitrary like free healthcare. I don't think there's anywhere I'd feel particularly more "free" all things considered aside from maybe Mars.
- djrogers 5y agoIt would be hard to argue that a country where it's illegal to call someone a dick is particularly free, if that indeed is the case.
- WastingMyTime89 5y agoThen most of the world isn't free I fear. Why should it be legal to publicly insult someone? You can't punch people in the USA. Does that make the country not particularly free?
- tomschlick 5y agoInsulting someone with words and punching them in the face are two drastically different things.
- ms4720 5y agoAnd be very very wary of people and groups that try to erase the difference.
- WastingMyTime89 5y agoBecause as an American you put the border at physical violence but think verbal violence doesn't matter. You see that as freedom. I see it as a lack of culture. Far more than an ocean separates these two continents. Note that it is entirely play pretend anyway. I know for a fact that I can actually say and do far more here than the American society would tolerate in the USA.
- 5y ago
- ipaddr 5y agoI would like a balanced perspective on this. What do our German/European think about this? Is this expected or a random event? Does this have public support?
- Zenst 5y agoYes the whole public support aspect can swing this either way, if Twitter comes out in support of the politician then that user will be guilty before he even hits the court. If on the other hand they come out in support of the user, then it may very well just go away and be slap on the wrist affair. But the sad thing is that most if not all twitter users, have seen far worse go unpunished.
- rob74 5y agoIt's a bit early in the morning in Europe, so there are probably not a lot of users online, but since I'm awake anyway, I can give you my opinion: on one hand, there is definitely a sentiment that online hate is a problem and something needs to be done about it. On the other hand, I guess most would agree that this is an exaggerated response (probably the thinking behind it was: "we can't find all those other guys, but hey, this idiot actually confirmed it was his account, so let's make an example of him to show we are doing something about online hate"). But yeah, things like this happen. A different example: there were some "creative" protests by environmentalists against the new "greenwashed" automobile fair IAA which has moved from Frankfurt to Munich since this year - defacing freeway signs etc.. Nine of the activists involved will be kept in "preventive custody" until the end of the fair (for one week) - https://twitter.com/mic_tra/status/1435529384174227459 https://twitter.com/mic_tra/status/1435529384174227459.
- gewa 5y agoThis has no support at all in Germany. The uproar was huge today and its seen as a misuse of power by the politician. Especially as he is not acting as a politician but as representative of the public office of interior. The search warrant needs to be issued by a judge and I'm sure there will be formal investigations how this happened. I would not be surprised if he will be forced to resign. There are also elections happening and misuse of power is seen very badly throughout the people.
- Barrin92 5y agoThe German basic law protects people's personal honour (article 5, freedom of expression), and this goes back hundreds of years. (strafrechtlicher Ehrschutz). >"These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general laws, in provisions for the protection of young persons and in the right to personal honour." This is reflected in the German criminal code Beleidigung(Insult), unchanged for about 150 years. >"The penalty for insult is imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year or a fine and, if the insult is committed by means of an assault, imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or a fine." This extends to everyone, not just politicians. For example, flipping someone off is not legal, and you'll be fined if someone were to take legal action. The headline of the article and the general tone of is misleading.
- xxpor 5y agoDon't forget to mention the special provisions that used to exist for foreign heads of state. Completely ridiculous from an American point of view, but I know we're in the minority here.
- 762236 5y agoAnyone that tailgates me on the Autobahn gets flipped off. I'd like them to explain how they were close enough to see that.
- orangeoxidation 5y ago> This extends to everyone, not just politicians. Yeah, but insulting your neighbor will not have the police raid your home at six in the morning. This case is not business as usual, it is a widely disproportional response. Hence the outrage.
- croes 5y agoThe problem in this case is that "Pimmel"(willy,pecker) is a minor insult which rather belongs to the schoolyard but they still did a house search although the perpetrator has long since confessed. On the other hand, Reanate Künast first had to fight in court for "Drecks Fotze" (dirty c**t) to be rated as an insult.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- gewa 5y agoAs a German I have to emphasize that this has no support at all in Germany. The uproar was huge today and its seen as a misuse of power by the politician. Especially as he is not acting as a politician but as representative of the public office of interior. The search warrant needs to be issued by a judge and I'm sure there will be formal investigations how this happened. I would not be surprised if he will be forced to resign. There are also elections happening and misuse of power is seen very badly throughout the people.
- aerosmile 5y agoIt's still a fact that in Germany you have to be careful how you express yourself. It was a total shock to me to arrive in the States and hear my cab driver unload on the US President at the time. He really wasn't choosing his words very carefully, to the point that I had to wonder if this was some kind of a test by the INS. I still chuckle today about how my views have changed since then, and how much more comfortable I am today with criticizing people, especially those in power.
- barbazoo 5y ago> It's still a fact that in Germany you have to be careful how you express yourself. Is that a fact? That's news to me. You might not hear as much "unloading" in Germany simply because it's not yet as polarized as it is in the US but certainly there wouldn't be any repercussions as far as I'm aware. What exactly are you talking about?
- dzhiurgis 5y agoI think defamation, slander or libel laws are basically non-existent in US.
- jcrites 5y agoThey exist but primarily protect private people. If the court determines that you are a “public figure” (I forget the legal term; IANAL) — such as CEOs of publicly traded companies, or politicians, etc. — then the bar for winning a case for defamation goes up significantly. Furthermore speech that is essentially opinion or critique is a defense against defamation that can cause the case to be dismissed before trial. 1st Amendment protections from the US Constitution. If you’re careful to word what you’re saying as a statement of your opinion rather than an assertion of fact, then a defendant has little chance at winning a defamation lawsuit from what I understand. Lastly, if what you’re saying is factually true then that offers an absolute defense against a defamation lawsuit; you would need to be able to prove that however. There are some country-wide precedents that SCOTUS has ruled on; otherwise laws are set by individual states from what I understand. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_defamation_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_defamation_law
- paulpauper 5y agoi dunno pick your poison: 1st amendment but militarized police and huge sentences and awful prison conditions or ppl summoned for making jokes but justice system better in every other respect
- slapfrog 5y agoWhy do you think either necessarily requires the other, in either circumstance?
- cirrus3 5y agoboth-sider showed up, welcome, did you have something to contribute?
- slapfrog 5y agoI'm pointing out a false dichotomy, why do we have to "pick our poison"? Can you explain why I should pick one? I don't want to take any poison. I want free speech and I want universal healthcare. I don't want one or the other; that's moronic. One does not preclude the other, so I want both.
- nautilius 5y agoThey did, actually, I suggest you think about the comment a bit more.
- cf_ 5y agoWhat I don‘t understand is how they differentiate this sort of „insult“ from “satire”. There are some protections around artistic freedom and you should be allowed to make fun of someone. There was a well-known [“Böhmermann vs. Erdogan”](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Böhmermann-Affäre https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Böhmermann-Affäre) case, where more serious insults than “Pimmel” were used, but the prosecution was terminated - probably due to a huge amount of public pressure - but it’s still strange and feels arbitrary.
- rkagerer 5y agohttps://archive.is/EiMIA https://archive.is/EiMIA
- cercatrova 5y agoReading things like these in other (even developed, Western) nations: - UK surveillance state powers, anti-porn laws - Australian laws to detain you, break encryption - This German incident I sure am glad to live in a country where freedoms are explicitly guaranteed by a constitutional decree.
- jhgb 5y agoIronically, said country with freedoms explicitly guaranteed by a constitutional decree rubber-stamped the German constitution that allowed for this.
- paranoidrobot 5y ago> I sure am glad to live in a country where freedoms are explicitly guaranteed by a constitutional decree. I can only assume you're referring to the US's Constitution. Rights that are apparently guaranteed by the US Constitution are routinely ignored by all levels of US Government. You may get your day in court, you may even have the court rule in your favour. That does not mean you're made whole, or that the government will back down and stop doing things that infringe upon your rights.
- calvinmorrison 5y agoRights do not emenate from a dusty scrap of parchment a few hundred years ago. They are immutable.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y agoPENIS is the new Godwin. edit: Singing voice: Hast Du etwas Zeit für mich, dann schwinge ich mein Glied für Dich...
- lazyjones 5y agoThe title and article are wrong. They raided his ex's apartment (a household with 2 small kids; he was still registered as living there but had moved out) even after the offender presented himself to police and admitted sending that Tweet.
- leephillips 5y agoFor some reason the title was altered to say something bizarre. The Twitter user did not raid the politician’s house.
- kiawe_fire 5y agoTo be fair, in the last 4 years especially, the US has set its own precedent of raiding the homes of political opponents, supporters and even lawyers. In one case last year, a person was even visited by officers for simply saying a politician’s rhetoric was “underwhelming”. To say nothing of the peaceful protestors who have been detained, in some cases without charges or even access to lawyers. We may like to think we’re still the bastion of freedom we want to see, but the trend certainly doesn’t point that way.
- SeanLuke 5y agoCitation needed. Use of police force in the ways you're describing is exceedingly rare in the US. If there is an uptick in the last 4 years, it would seem to me mostly due to the increase in death threats against politicians and their families by an increasingly polarized right wing.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- cryptonector 5y agoBroken title. Should be "A Twitter user insulted a German politician. Police then raided his house." I.e., s/,/. Police/
- cirrus3 5y agoTitle is broken. > A Twitter user insulted a German politician. Police then raided his house.
- throwawayswede 5y agoUnrelated, but I'm seriously contemplating network-wide banning all links to and any mention of "washingtonpost.com" purely on how hostile their website is. Every damn time I click on a random link (which is like once a week at most) I'm greeted with a sign that asks me to pay for something I don't use. On another unrelated, I seriously think paywalled websites should not be allowed on community forums such as HN.
- sandos 5y agoThis title is missing an important word that completely reverses its meaning! Argh. The twitter user did, in fact, not raid the house of the politician.
- chakhs 5y ago> The Hamburg police confirmed to The Post that it had searched the house of the Twitter user behind the @pauli_zoo handle early Wednesday to “gather evidence" I wonder what kind of evidence they were looking for?
- slightwinder 5y agoShould be noted that this is a pretty strange case. The case came originally from the police, the politician was just asked later to report it too, because law demands it. And that insult is really, really weak, even by German standards. The raid was also unnecessary, as they already had the culprits' statement of guilty. And on top they even raided the wrong house. On the side, looking up the culprit, he seems to be a political activist, from the left spectrum which has many bad blood in the city where this happened. So my guess is, this case has a political background, and the insult was just a pretext to justify the means.
- krylon 5y agoI know this shouldn't be made fun of, and as a German I am very upset about it. But: "Pimmelgate" is an awesome name. Also, don't politicians know about the Streisand effect? If they hadn't raided this guy, nobody would know about the Tweet, and nobody would care one bit. Ethics and law aside, this was just a very dumb move.