4 ms·

There is a seriously fundamental problem with modern humanity. It's not just about money/wealth, but in this example it's an easy example to talk about. What

by blunte 5y ago

There is a seriously fundamental problem with modern humanity. It's not just about money/wealth, but in this example it's an easy example to talk about. What exactly does one do with a billion dollars? Or 10 billion? Or 100 billion? If a global financial disaster strikes (no evil tax man, just some giant catastrophy), what does losing half of 100 billion dollars actually mean to someone? Imagine for a moment that you could eat the finest food every day, without fail. Whatever you wanted would always be available. Would you be satisfied with stuffing yourself, or would you need to have 10 or 100 tables around you decorated with every possible other food you might want, but unfortunately do not have the space to consume? If the poor people outside asked, "Can you please share?", would you say, "No, I earned all this! It is mine, and anyone who wants to take it from me is (choose your negative title)!" Many of us here have played video games. In gaming, there are always people who are either really talented, really motivated/disciplined, or cheaters. They can far surpass the normal player in various measures. But for what gain? After the thrill of being best at one thing, or being richest wears off, what then? (Ok, yes, politics. But that's beside the point.) I would rather be loved and appreciated by everyone around me than admired by throngs of poor people outside the walls of my castle. I suspect some of the people who chase and fight to hold riches have missed something important in early childhood and are doing the only thing they know to do to try to meet that need.

leereeves 5y ago
> What exactly does one do with a billion dollars? For the most part, people who have that much wealth own a large share of major companies. Many founded and/or control those companies. Their "billion dollars" is often mostly stock in those companies. So one answer to your question is: operate a company that provides something that millions of people want.
- blunte 5y ago
  Chances are really good that the companies they operate gained their stature in part by monopolistic (aka, anti-capitalistic free market, as is the popular theme) behaviors. But I will play this game anyway. If you have 1 billion dollars worth of your company's stock, in addition to your other assets (which you surely have, as you do not live on stock alone), then would it pain you greatly to sell off some of that stock every year to pay taxes on your gains? Yes I know the current tax law doesn't require it, but that's the problem. And in the case of Amazon, since that's a great example, are they a well-behaved company? And by that, I mean, do they really serve the customer and provide what millions of people want? Do millions of people want counterfeit goods? Do millions of people knowingly want their purchases to be packaged and transported by modern slave labor? If the richest American exmplifies why corporate value should be protected, then I'd say we have failed as a human civilization. I'm not sure how old you are, but there was a time before Amazon. It worked pretty well. We went to a store and bought a thing. If what we wanted wasn't available, we waited or shopped around or decided it wasn't important (or we went for a second-hand thing or built it ourselves). Amazon did not supply a need that was unmet. They just replaced the existing suppliers with a more clever, profitable system. I daresay the end result is a net loss for most people.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    I think the point that you are missing is that some people -- especially rich people -- just will not spend money they don't have to. Why would they sell off some of that stock every year to pay taxes if they don't have to? Certainly if there are loopholes that allow them to legally avoid paying, but I guess some people also believe (and so far are correct) that they can get away with outright tax evasion. And I expect many of these people are also of the opinion that the government overspends and wastes what they'd give them. I'm not saying it's right, or altruistic, or anything, just that it's unsurprising and not that hard to understand. > I'm not sure how old you are, but there was a time before Amazon. It worked pretty well. Not the person you're replying to, but I'm old also enough to remember having to physically go to stores to buy things, and all those other things you mention. It was annoying. Today I can tap around for 5 minutes on my phone, and then two days later a delivery service drops a box at my door. Why would I want to spend an hour or more driving to a store, wander around, hopefully find what I want, wait in line for a cashier, lug my stuff to the car, and drive home? Sure, the old way worked fine, more or less, but the new way is such a much better experience in nearly every way. The main two ways it isn't is if it's something I really need same-day, or if it's something I really want to be able to see/try before I buy. Which you'd think would be more often than it actually is; in practice it's pretty rare.
  - leereeves 5y ago
    > would it pain you greatly to sell off some of that stock every year to pay taxes on your gains I imagine it would be painful because you'd lose control of the company. If someone founds a great company, why should the taxman take it away? And why should we expect the new owner to be any better? As to whether Amazon provides something millions of people want, the facts speak for themselves. People choose to shop at Amazon, despite all its problems, instead of a brick and mortar store or another website. No one forces them. I'm not a big fan of Amazon myself, but whether you (or I) think Amazon is good is irrelevant. Millions of people love it.
  - Ginden 5y ago
    > Chances are really good that the companies they operate gained their stature in part by monopolistic (aka, anti-capitalistic free market, as is the popular theme) behaviors. I just checked [Fortune 500 list](https://fortune.com/fortune500/2021/search/ https://fortune.com/fortune500/2021/search/) and most of companies didn't gained their status by monopolistic practices. Some of them (but it doesn't even look as majority), though, _maintain_ their status by questionable practices that may, in a broad sense, be called "monopolistic".
ajsnigrutin 5y ago
Emm.. you don't actually have 10 billions in your bank account.. or a 100... you own eg. Amazon (or a lot of stocks from it), and you sell cheap crap to random people, and other random people value your company at many billions, and are willing to pay whatever the price is for the stocks of the company.
- blunte 5y ago
  But with billions in assets, you can borrow so greatly that you never have to spend a penny of your own assets. And hey, even if you do sell some of your stock, a 20% cap gains tax isn't so much when your stock is going up faster than 20%. Also, random people don't value your company at billions. Other unreasonably wealthy groups of people seek places to stash their wealth, since there is a glut of money in a few hands. So they find the most stable or reliable stores of wealth. Amazon stock is certainly one.
credit_guy 5y ago
>> What exactly does one do with a billion dollars? Or 10 billion? Or 100 billion? I don't know, but what I know is that this country was built on the idea of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These guys are pursuing their happiness, I'm pursuing mine. It's not my place to question their choices in life. If they break the law, they should be punished, until then, I do believe in the presumption of innocence. If they want to share their wealth, good for them, if not, I'm free to share my own wealth.
IAmGraydon 5y ago
When you have billions, you aren’t thinking about buying good food, nice clothes and cars. Millions can do that. Billions let’s you buy power, and power lets you change the world around you.

by blunte 5y ago

leereeves 5y ago

> What exactly does one do with a billion dollars? For the most part, people who have that much wealth own a large share of major companies. Many founded and/or control those companies. Their "billion dollars" is often mostly stock in those companies. So one answer to your question is: operate a company that provides something that millions of people want.

blunte 5y ago
Chances are really good that the companies they operate gained their stature in part by monopolistic (aka, anti-capitalistic free market, as is the popular theme) behaviors. But I will play this game anyway. If you have 1 billion dollars worth of your company's stock, in addition to your other assets (which you surely have, as you do not live on stock alone), then would it pain you greatly to sell off some of that stock every year to pay taxes on your gains? Yes I know the current tax law doesn't require it, but that's the problem. And in the case of Amazon, since that's a great example, are they a well-behaved company? And by that, I mean, do they really serve the customer and provide what millions of people want? Do millions of people want counterfeit goods? Do millions of people knowingly want their purchases to be packaged and transported by modern slave labor? If the richest American exmplifies why corporate value should be protected, then I'd say we have failed as a human civilization. I'm not sure how old you are, but there was a time before Amazon. It worked pretty well. We went to a store and bought a thing. If what we wanted wasn't available, we waited or shopped around or decided it wasn't important (or we went for a second-hand thing or built it ourselves). Amazon did not supply a need that was unmet. They just replaced the existing suppliers with a more clever, profitable system. I daresay the end result is a net loss for most people.
- kelnos 5y ago
  I think the point that you are missing is that some people -- especially rich people -- just will not spend money they don't have to. Why would they sell off some of that stock every year to pay taxes if they don't have to? Certainly if there are loopholes that allow them to legally avoid paying, but I guess some people also believe (and so far are correct) that they can get away with outright tax evasion. And I expect many of these people are also of the opinion that the government overspends and wastes what they'd give them. I'm not saying it's right, or altruistic, or anything, just that it's unsurprising and not that hard to understand. > I'm not sure how old you are, but there was a time before Amazon. It worked pretty well. Not the person you're replying to, but I'm old also enough to remember having to physically go to stores to buy things, and all those other things you mention. It was annoying. Today I can tap around for 5 minutes on my phone, and then two days later a delivery service drops a box at my door. Why would I want to spend an hour or more driving to a store, wander around, hopefully find what I want, wait in line for a cashier, lug my stuff to the car, and drive home? Sure, the old way worked fine, more or less, but the new way is such a much better experience in nearly every way. The main two ways it isn't is if it's something I really need same-day, or if it's something I really want to be able to see/try before I buy. Which you'd think would be more often than it actually is; in practice it's pretty rare.
- leereeves 5y ago
  > would it pain you greatly to sell off some of that stock every year to pay taxes on your gains I imagine it would be painful because you'd lose control of the company. If someone founds a great company, why should the taxman take it away? And why should we expect the new owner to be any better? As to whether Amazon provides something millions of people want, the facts speak for themselves. People choose to shop at Amazon, despite all its problems, instead of a brick and mortar store or another website. No one forces them. I'm not a big fan of Amazon myself, but whether you (or I) think Amazon is good is irrelevant. Millions of people love it.
- Ginden 5y ago
  > Chances are really good that the companies they operate gained their stature in part by monopolistic (aka, anti-capitalistic free market, as is the popular theme) behaviors. I just checked [Fortune 500 list](https://fortune.com/fortune500/2021/search/ https://fortune.com/fortune500/2021/search/) and most of companies didn't gained their status by monopolistic practices. Some of them (but it doesn't even look as majority), though, _maintain_ their status by questionable practices that may, in a broad sense, be called "monopolistic".

ajsnigrutin 5y ago

Emm.. you don't actually have 10 billions in your bank account.. or a 100... you own eg. Amazon (or a lot of stocks from it), and you sell cheap crap to random people, and other random people value your company at many billions, and are willing to pay whatever the price is for the stocks of the company.

blunte 5y ago
But with billions in assets, you can borrow so greatly that you never have to spend a penny of your own assets. And hey, even if you do sell some of your stock, a 20% cap gains tax isn't so much when your stock is going up faster than 20%. Also, random people don't value your company at billions. Other unreasonably wealthy groups of people seek places to stash their wealth, since there is a glut of money in a few hands. So they find the most stable or reliable stores of wealth. Amazon stock is certainly one.

credit_guy 5y ago

>> What exactly does one do with a billion dollars? Or 10 billion? Or 100 billion? I don't know, but what I know is that this country was built on the idea of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These guys are pursuing their happiness, I'm pursuing mine. It's not my place to question their choices in life. If they break the law, they should be punished, until then, I do believe in the presumption of innocence. If they want to share their wealth, good for them, if not, I'm free to share my own wealth.

IAmGraydon 5y ago

When you have billions, you aren’t thinking about buying good food, nice clothes and cars. Millions can do that. Billions let’s you buy power, and power lets you change the world around you.