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Ah, but China holds all the financial levers to keep everyone in their place. If there were a war there'd be no "Made in China" goods being exported. Take a l

by Yeroc 5y ago

Ah, but China holds all the financial levers to keep everyone in their place. If there were a war there'd be no "Made in China" goods being exported. Take a look around you and think about that for a few minutes. They can get away with almost anything. The only thing they fear is an internal uprising.

hker 5y ago
> They can get away with almost anything. Not if factories move to Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Bangladesh, India, etc., as the current trend continues.
- pempem 5y ago
  In most of the countries you've identified China has a strong toehold already.
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    not really. those neighbors have absolutely no trust in China. There is history too between these countries in Asia.
    - teawrecks 5y ago
      Politics isn't that simple. Not everyone in those countries feels the same way or is being paid by the same people. Even in HK where citizens regularly fill the streets to openly protest Chinese influence, the HK govt has many Chinese sympathizers who are trying to ensure the situation shakes out in China's favor.
      - kayxspre 5y ago
        This mirrors what happened in Thailand as well. While the younger generations (90s or after) want to see a better and fair politics, many people involving in politics nowadays are more likely to support Chinese influence (infrastructure, pandemic response, among others). In fact, when its embassy published an op-ed bashing Thai people for diminishing the efficiency of COVID-19 vaccine it supplied to Thailand, there are some Thai people who actually gave apology on behalf of the fellow Thais, despite their series implying that face masks from Thailand have a low quality.
    - pempem 5y ago
      Fully agree that there is endless history inter and intra asia. As a 1st gen asian american let me assure you I am familiar with that reality. This is 2019 Thailand: According to a BoI report, investment applications from Chinese projects in the first nine months of this year amounted to 45 billion baht, up 100% from the same period last year, mainly from the rubber industry and tyre manufacturing. Thailand advanced six notches to 21st out of 190 countries in the World Bank's 2020 Ease of Doing Business (EODB) rankings. - https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/1782899/chinese-factory-applications-to-rise https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/1782899/chinese-factory... This is Malaysia in 2016: China is pouring huge money into Malaysia and most people have yet to bat an eye on the significance of this huge impact. In times of trouble, who is it that comes to support Malaysia? It is the Chinese. “This has led to Malaysia’s foreign bond holdings going back up to over 50% and also gave our ringgit some form of stability,” says Astramina Advisory Sdn Bhd managing director Wong Muh Rong. - https://archive.is/Ipbnu#selection-2839.0-2839.191 https://archive.is/Ipbnu#selection-2839.0-2839.191 The reason for pulling old quotes is to show that this is a trend that has continued forward. I'd be happy to be wrong.
TimTheTinker 5y ago
> If there were a war there'd be no "Made in China" goods being exported. That would be the best thing that ever happened to the rest of the world, and to Chinese citizens as well. China has long abused its citizens to undercut global prices on manufactured goods. Their political and religious prisoners are very often put to work in factories (if not sent to work camps or tortured in prison); and wages for factory work are very low compared to the rest of the world. In the early 1930s, the USSR survived by shipping so much grain out of Ukraine that by 1933, 25% of the Ukrainian populace had died. Dictatorships and authoritarian regimes always abuse people one way or another to survive.
- hker 5y ago
  > In the early 1930s, the USSR survived by shipping so much grain out of Ukraine that by 1933, 25% of the Ukrainian populace had died. Dictatorships and authoritarian regimes always abuse people one way or another to survive. During the Great Leap Forward around 1958-1962, an estimated 15 to 55 millions died in China due to famine, while China was still a net exporter of grain (to Cuba and Africa). Another data point to support your point.
  - cma 5y ago
    Ireland was a net exporter of food during the potato famine, from appeals to laissez-faire capitalism.
    - TimTheTinker 5y ago
      That was due to abusive behavior on England's part. Every country and every political leader is capable of committing atrocities. But overall, rule-of-law democracy is much better at mitigating that than other forms of government.
      - yunohn 5y ago
        > rule-of-law democracy is much better at mitigating that than other forms of government I believe that both are exploitative, just that developed democracy is better at hiding it - either internally through low wage labor or by exporting to developing countries.
bawolff 5y ago
> If there were a war there'd be no "Made in China" goods being exported. Who are you kidding? If there was a full scale china vs usa war, there would be nobody left to import the goods either.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
teawrecks 5y ago
> The only thing they fear is an internal uprising. Unfortunately, they're so good at propaganda and fear that they seem to have the civil unrest front on lock. Any real protests are erased and no one is allowed to mention it ever happened. I have to assume this practice won't last forever. Historically, it never does. But it could last a while.

by Yeroc 5y ago

hker 5y ago

> They can get away with almost anything. Not if factories move to Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Bangladesh, India, etc., as the current trend continues.

pempem 5y ago
In most of the countries you've identified China has a strong toehold already.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  not really. those neighbors have absolutely no trust in China. There is history too between these countries in Asia.
  - teawrecks 5y ago
    Politics isn't that simple. Not everyone in those countries feels the same way or is being paid by the same people. Even in HK where citizens regularly fill the streets to openly protest Chinese influence, the HK govt has many Chinese sympathizers who are trying to ensure the situation shakes out in China's favor.
    - kayxspre 5y ago
      This mirrors what happened in Thailand as well. While the younger generations (90s or after) want to see a better and fair politics, many people involving in politics nowadays are more likely to support Chinese influence (infrastructure, pandemic response, among others). In fact, when its embassy published an op-ed bashing Thai people for diminishing the efficiency of COVID-19 vaccine it supplied to Thailand, there are some Thai people who actually gave apology on behalf of the fellow Thais, despite their series implying that face masks from Thailand have a low quality.
  - pempem 5y ago
    Fully agree that there is endless history inter and intra asia. As a 1st gen asian american let me assure you I am familiar with that reality. This is 2019 Thailand: According to a BoI report, investment applications from Chinese projects in the first nine months of this year amounted to 45 billion baht, up 100% from the same period last year, mainly from the rubber industry and tyre manufacturing. Thailand advanced six notches to 21st out of 190 countries in the World Bank's 2020 Ease of Doing Business (EODB) rankings. - https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/1782899/chinese-factory-applications-to-rise https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/1782899/chinese-factory... This is Malaysia in 2016: China is pouring huge money into Malaysia and most people have yet to bat an eye on the significance of this huge impact. In times of trouble, who is it that comes to support Malaysia? It is the Chinese. “This has led to Malaysia’s foreign bond holdings going back up to over 50% and also gave our ringgit some form of stability,” says Astramina Advisory Sdn Bhd managing director Wong Muh Rong. - https://archive.is/Ipbnu#selection-2839.0-2839.191 https://archive.is/Ipbnu#selection-2839.0-2839.191 The reason for pulling old quotes is to show that this is a trend that has continued forward. I'd be happy to be wrong.

TimTheTinker 5y ago

> If there were a war there'd be no "Made in China" goods being exported. That would be the best thing that ever happened to the rest of the world, and to Chinese citizens as well. China has long abused its citizens to undercut global prices on manufactured goods. Their political and religious prisoners are very often put to work in factories (if not sent to work camps or tortured in prison); and wages for factory work are very low compared to the rest of the world. In the early 1930s, the USSR survived by shipping so much grain out of Ukraine that by 1933, 25% of the Ukrainian populace had died. Dictatorships and authoritarian regimes always abuse people one way or another to survive.

hker 5y ago
> In the early 1930s, the USSR survived by shipping so much grain out of Ukraine that by 1933, 25% of the Ukrainian populace had died. Dictatorships and authoritarian regimes always abuse people one way or another to survive. During the Great Leap Forward around 1958-1962, an estimated 15 to 55 millions died in China due to famine, while China was still a net exporter of grain (to Cuba and Africa). Another data point to support your point.
- cma 5y ago
  Ireland was a net exporter of food during the potato famine, from appeals to laissez-faire capitalism.
  - TimTheTinker 5y ago
    That was due to abusive behavior on England's part. Every country and every political leader is capable of committing atrocities. But overall, rule-of-law democracy is much better at mitigating that than other forms of government.
    - yunohn 5y ago
      > rule-of-law democracy is much better at mitigating that than other forms of government I believe that both are exploitative, just that developed democracy is better at hiding it - either internally through low wage labor or by exporting to developing countries.

bawolff 5y ago

> If there were a war there'd be no "Made in China" goods being exported. Who are you kidding? If there was a full scale china vs usa war, there would be nobody left to import the goods either.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

teawrecks 5y ago

> The only thing they fear is an internal uprising. Unfortunately, they're so good at propaganda and fear that they seem to have the civil unrest front on lock. Any real protests are erased and no one is allowed to mention it ever happened. I have to assume this practice won't last forever. Historically, it never does. But it could last a while.