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Punish them how? The global economy is heavy reliant on a cooperative China. UK have made it clear they aren’t part of the EU so why would the EU care? Just r

Punish them how? The global economy is heavy reliant on a cooperative China. UK have made it clear they aren’t part of the EU so why would the EU care? Just recall the context China are operating from: Hong Kong was stolen from them at the height of the opium wars. There is no fairness in these geopolitical dealings. Overall this sucks for HK… but it’s actually easy to understand all the parties involved actions/inaction… it’s just crap though. :(

busterarm 5y ago
Not as reliant as you think. Chinese exports are rapidly becoming too expensive relative to their neighbors and they seem to be unable to further cheapen the price of their labor. Economically, China is actually in a real bind.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  The solution is pretty simple, direct low value labour to the internal economy or phase it out, and trade increasingly in difficult products (or products that difficult at scale, of which there are more than you think) as far as foreign trade. It's a fairly proven strategy, it has good odds of working with an already strong internal market.
robbedpeter 5y ago
The China of the opium wars was a completely different entity than Communist China. I don't see that there is any obligation whatsoever to deal with the ccp as if they are the legitimate successors of all things formerly China. They're lying, cheating, and stealing from every entity they deal with on the world stage, blatantly holding themselves above any law, even internally. This doesn't end well unless there's some sort of overwhelming grassroots revolution from the inside. Thanks to Western panopticon tech, that can't happen now, so China's merry band of pirates is headed for Taiwan and global conflict. Thanks, boomers, ya done good.
- onethought 5y ago
  I wasn't defending their action. Just pointing out that is the context they operate from. Whether it is fact or indoctrination isn't really important. Their action is 100% consistent with that belief. Every country is lying/cheating/stealing... Is there an honest operator out there?
  - robbedpeter 5y ago
    Well, yes - if Apple or Samsung violate IP laws, there is recourse. If China steals all the Arm Holdings IP and infrastructure in China, there is no recourse. If I scam someone on EBay or Amazon almost anywhere in the Western world, they can take me to court given sufficient evidence and magnitude of the scam. If a Chinese seller on Alibaba or Amazon scams me, there is zero recourse. The Western world has a surprising level of default trust and honesty in business. There are gross and obvious exceptions, but China is culturally and legally playing a vastly different and incompatible game.
    - onethought 5y ago
      I was referring to state actors. “The western world” is the minority in the world… like 20 or so countries. And typically they benefited from colonialism. I know it’s fun to ignore history, but it’s dishonest.
- bllguo 5y ago
  Blatantly holding themselves above any law, who does that remind me of.. We have done and continue to do more than our fair share of lying, cheating, and stealing. We metaphorically stacked the deck. You say "global conflict" - I'll remind you that it takes two to have a conflict. And America has the modern world beat in terms of starting and perpetuating conflicts.
blibble 5y ago
most of the EU doesn't care half of Cyprus (a member state) is still occupied
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  EU politics are fun... - Kosovo wants to be independent, people decided so, so we must support a new country - Bosnia has to stay together, no matter what the people want, we won't change maps again - Catalonia? What, what, sorry, can't hear you, the connection is unstable.. [disconnect]
phantomathkg 5y ago
Then first, remove the dependencies, there are places that you can start manufacturing stuff cheaper than China, and without the risk of Chinese stealing the IP. It is not a UK/EU issue. At the end of the day CCP think itself as a rising power and will want to expand its power to anywhere on earth. The belt and road initiative is basically modern day colonisation, instead of taking over a whole country or city, Sri Lanka lost a port for 99 years. [1] 1: https://www.ft.com/content/e150ef0c-de37-11e7-a8a4-0a1e63a52f9c https://www.ft.com/content/e150ef0c-de37-11e7-a8a4-0a1e63a52...

busterarm 5y ago

Not as reliant as you think. Chinese exports are rapidly becoming too expensive relative to their neighbors and they seem to be unable to further cheapen the price of their labor. Economically, China is actually in a real bind.

sudosysgen 5y ago
The solution is pretty simple, direct low value labour to the internal economy or phase it out, and trade increasingly in difficult products (or products that difficult at scale, of which there are more than you think) as far as foreign trade. It's a fairly proven strategy, it has good odds of working with an already strong internal market.

robbedpeter 5y ago

The China of the opium wars was a completely different entity than Communist China. I don't see that there is any obligation whatsoever to deal with the ccp as if they are the legitimate successors of all things formerly China. They're lying, cheating, and stealing from every entity they deal with on the world stage, blatantly holding themselves above any law, even internally. This doesn't end well unless there's some sort of overwhelming grassroots revolution from the inside. Thanks to Western panopticon tech, that can't happen now, so China's merry band of pirates is headed for Taiwan and global conflict. Thanks, boomers, ya done good.

onethought 5y ago
I wasn't defending their action. Just pointing out that is the context they operate from. Whether it is fact or indoctrination isn't really important. Their action is 100% consistent with that belief. Every country is lying/cheating/stealing... Is there an honest operator out there?
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  Well, yes - if Apple or Samsung violate IP laws, there is recourse. If China steals all the Arm Holdings IP and infrastructure in China, there is no recourse. If I scam someone on EBay or Amazon almost anywhere in the Western world, they can take me to court given sufficient evidence and magnitude of the scam. If a Chinese seller on Alibaba or Amazon scams me, there is zero recourse. The Western world has a surprising level of default trust and honesty in business. There are gross and obvious exceptions, but China is culturally and legally playing a vastly different and incompatible game.
  - onethought 5y ago
    I was referring to state actors. “The western world” is the minority in the world… like 20 or so countries. And typically they benefited from colonialism. I know it’s fun to ignore history, but it’s dishonest.
bllguo 5y ago
Blatantly holding themselves above any law, who does that remind me of.. We have done and continue to do more than our fair share of lying, cheating, and stealing. We metaphorically stacked the deck. You say "global conflict" - I'll remind you that it takes two to have a conflict. And America has the modern world beat in terms of starting and perpetuating conflicts.

blibble 5y ago

most of the EU doesn't care half of Cyprus (a member state) is still occupied

ajsnigrutin 5y ago
EU politics are fun... - Kosovo wants to be independent, people decided so, so we must support a new country - Bosnia has to stay together, no matter what the people want, we won't change maps again - Catalonia? What, what, sorry, can't hear you, the connection is unstable.. [disconnect]

phantomathkg 5y ago

Then first, remove the dependencies, there are places that you can start manufacturing stuff cheaper than China, and without the risk of Chinese stealing the IP. It is not a UK/EU issue. At the end of the day CCP think itself as a rising power and will want to expand its power to anywhere on earth. The belt and road initiative is basically modern day colonisation, instead of taking over a whole country or city, Sri Lanka lost a port for 99 years. [1] 1: https://www.ft.com/content/e150ef0c-de37-11e7-a8a4-0a1e63a52f9c https://www.ft.com/content/e150ef0c-de37-11e7-a8a4-0a1e63a52...