4 ms·

Not necessarily, young blood is always good. Having a single academic dominate the discussion is never good.

sjcoles 5y ago
Two Haskellers enter a bar. Two hours later both leave more confused than when they entered. This is what got me with Haskell. Any question is derailed into theory to the point where getting anything done is difficult.
- butterisgood 5y ago
  I've shipped stuff written in Haskell almost 2 times... but actually one time. It's not that bad. Honestly the only reason we shipped it was because the prototype I did in it worked too well. I had a backup almost ready in time written in C++ in case it got too tricky for others to maintain, and it was a simple component in a larger software stack.
- cole-k 5y ago
  I would be careful making such generalizations lest you give this vocal minority of haskellers more reason to believe that non-haskellers are luddites (edit: can you use the word "luddite" to refer to people who don't like theory? Probably not but pretend that's what it means).
  - sjcoles 5y ago
    I've used Haskell for a few personal projects (GHC 6.8-7.0 timeframe). It is great but I stand by my statement that the community's obsession with complexity (even if it's simpler from a category or maths sense) is the issue. Haskell's community is almost *obsessed* with increasing cognitive load IMO. I want to make things not argue about the best, or most technically correct, way to make them.
    - ebingdom 5y ago
      > It is great but I stand by my statement that the community's obsession with complexity (even if it's simpler from a category or maths sense) is the issue. Haskell's community is almost obsessed with increasing cognitive load IMO. Personally, I consider it more complex to have to think about what side effects every piece of code has and what order things are evaluated in. The fact that I don't have to worry about these things in Haskell is a breath of fresh air for me. Also, not having to deal with the complexity of OOP when an ordinary function will do. I think it's a misconception that Haskell is more complex than whatever popular OOP language people are using. It just looks more complex because it's less familiar (which I think is a problem with what we teach students in school).
      - LandR 5y ago
        > it just looks more complex because it's less familiar This is a problem I have at work. Everyone here thinks unfamiliar and hard / complex are synonyms. They aren't!
      - tome 5y ago
        Agreed. I use Haskell because it decreases my cognitive load.
    - JadeNB 5y ago
      > I want to make things not argue about the best, or most technically correct, way to make them. Well, not all programming languages are for all people, and there are people who prefer the theoretical approach. Calling that an obsession with complexity is, I think, unfair, or at least inaccurate.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- elihu 5y ago
  "If your confusion leads you in the right direction, the results can be uncommonly rewarding" --Haruki Murakami, Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World (as translated to English)

Two Haskellers enter a bar. Two hours later both leave more confused than when they entered. This is what got me with Haskell. Any question is derailed into theory to the point where getting anything done is difficult.

butterisgood 5y ago
I've shipped stuff written in Haskell almost 2 times... but actually one time. It's not that bad. Honestly the only reason we shipped it was because the prototype I did in it worked too well. I had a backup almost ready in time written in C++ in case it got too tricky for others to maintain, and it was a simple component in a larger software stack.
cole-k 5y ago
I would be careful making such generalizations lest you give this vocal minority of haskellers more reason to believe that non-haskellers are luddites (edit: can you use the word "luddite" to refer to people who don't like theory? Probably not but pretend that's what it means).
- sjcoles 5y ago
  I've used Haskell for a few personal projects (GHC 6.8-7.0 timeframe). It is great but I stand by my statement that the community's obsession with complexity (even if it's simpler from a category or maths sense) is the issue. Haskell's community is almost *obsessed* with increasing cognitive load IMO. I want to make things not argue about the best, or most technically correct, way to make them.
  - ebingdom 5y ago
    > It is great but I stand by my statement that the community's obsession with complexity (even if it's simpler from a category or maths sense) is the issue. Haskell's community is almost obsessed with increasing cognitive load IMO. Personally, I consider it more complex to have to think about what side effects every piece of code has and what order things are evaluated in. The fact that I don't have to worry about these things in Haskell is a breath of fresh air for me. Also, not having to deal with the complexity of OOP when an ordinary function will do. I think it's a misconception that Haskell is more complex than whatever popular OOP language people are using. It just looks more complex because it's less familiar (which I think is a problem with what we teach students in school).
    - LandR 5y ago
      > it just looks more complex because it's less familiar This is a problem I have at work. Everyone here thinks unfamiliar and hard / complex are synonyms. They aren't!
    - tome 5y ago
      Agreed. I use Haskell because it decreases my cognitive load.
  - JadeNB 5y ago
    > I want to make things not argue about the best, or most technically correct, way to make them. Well, not all programming languages are for all people, and there are people who prefer the theoretical approach. Calling that an obsession with complexity is, I think, unfair, or at least inaccurate.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
elihu 5y ago
"If your confusion leads you in the right direction, the results can be uncommonly rewarding" --Haruki Murakami, Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World (as translated to English)