10 ms·

Biden to announce new vaccine mandates for federal workers and large employers

24 points by fspacef 5y ago

Covzire 5y ago
This administration is fascist trash.
guess-i-dont 5y ago
Really pains me to see this happen. I guess I didnt really know my country, and unfortunately while it was nice to pull myself out of poverty in principal I suppose I have to go back -- simply cannot fit into this mindset/stuff/whatever it is. Im not an anti vaxxer -- i just dont agree with this sort of mind set, much less the surrounding glee.
j_walter 5y ago
What ever happened to "my body my choice"? I'm vaccinated because it was the right choice for me. I don't agree with mandating it for everyone.
- kmos17 5y ago
  Like every other American you already are vaccinated for several other diseases since childhood. This country has gone down the tubes with personal freedom absolutism, there are some times when the government mandating a health measure makes sense, this is one.
  - Covzire 5y ago
    Your argument boils down to "for the good of the majority will the minority be stripped of their rights", the same fucking argument was used in Nazi Germany against invalids, sick people and later Jews. This mandate is flagrantly unconstitutional, unnecessary and plain fucking evil. If the federal government isn't stopped cold here, there is absolutely no limit to their power to oppress more minority groups for any reason they dream of.
  - 650 5y ago
    >"Like every other American you already are vaccinated for several other diseases since childhood." Slippery slope in practice is this scenario. You were already injected with X and Y before you could consent or understand. What's Z more? Edit: I do not object to previously-normal vaccinations, where you are pretty much one-and-done in your youth, and don't have to continually prove them when you try to do day-to-day life. I object to the new notion that we can impose them for everything in the world. I am 110% against the notion of requiring a vaccine card to go to a bar or board a flight, and will boycott any business that asks this of me. No "Papiere, Bitte" bullshit. If I have to accept the latter if I accept the former, then I am against the former.
  - j_walter 5y ago
    Ummm...not every other American (no where near 100%). Also those vaccines are tried and tested for decades...not pushed through FDA approval and side effects hidden from public view. I personally know 2 people that had major side effects and one of them is still not recovered (legally blind due to strokes she had 2 months ago, a day after her first vaccine shot). The other had a heart attack 2 days after his vaccine shot. Both could be just a coincidence in timing...but that's a hell of a coincidence..
    - hajile 5y ago
      The numbers get REALY bad when you look at vaccinating kids. 486 kids dead from covid [0] over almost 2 years. For reference, over 24,000 kids died during that same period from various accidents. 6,488 kids committed suicide in 2019 alone [1] and those rates have supposedly gone up since, so at least 13,000 kids killed themselves during this pandemic. There have been at least 250 myocarditis/myopericarditis VAERS complaints (that's inflammation of the heart or heart sack) in kids [2]. When accounting for the much lower child vaccination rates, that's very bad. They were looking at 2.5k reports at that time, but they are now up to 5-6k myocarditis reports now (and kids are being vaccinated at an increasing rate). Normal VAERS reporting rates are estimated to be around 1% of all people with side effects[3] if for no other reason than people just don't know it exists. Despite this, there have been over 650,000 reports including 14,000 deaths, 18,000 permanently disabled, and 76,000 hospital visits [4]. If the VAERS statistics hold true as they have historically, there are more like 60,000,000 people who actually suffered side effects. [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-on-Ages-0-18-Yea/nr4s-juj3 https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-... [1] https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide [2] https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-08-30/03-COVID-Su-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-... [3] https://digital.ahrq.gov/ahrq-funded-projects/electronic-support-public-health-vaccine-adverse-event-reporting-system https://digital.ahrq.gov/ahrq-funded-projects/electronic-sup... [4] https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data
    - kmos17 5y ago
      You personally know two people with maybe side effects, meanwhile we know of over 600k dead Americans from the virus. We also know 99% of hospitalizations are now from unvaccinated people. The math is not in favor of your logic.
h2odragon 5y ago
So any medical condition that contra-indicates covid vaccination will become a "total disability" then? if it's important enough to mandate, surely its important enough to sacrifice the contributions of those valued cow orkers who, alas, aren't able to participate, for the Greater Good and all... Or if medical exceptions are allowed, doesn't that kind of belie the whole basis of the mandate? COVID isn't smallpox.
hajile 5y ago
Let's take Biden's facts at face value. CDC says the current running average is 12,156 covid hospitalizations per week [0]. 175M vaccinated according to Biden 1 in 160,000 hospitalized per day according to biden Total US population is 328.2M, so 153.2M are unvaccinated. CDC says 1736.57 hospitalizations per day at present. 175e6 / 160e3 = 1094 vaccinated hospitalized per day That leaves 643 unvaccinated people hospitalized per day 153.2e6 / 643 = 1 unvaccinated per 238k hospitalized per day If the President and CDC are not lying, then unvaccinated people are NOT the problem. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidvi...
- kmos17 5y ago
  99% of hospitalized are unvaccinated: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19-hospitalizations-nonvaccinated.amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19... this from fox news.
  - hajile 5y ago
    You have a choice then. Either Fox News lied/was misled or Biden and the CDC lied. EDIT: alternatively, I misread the CDC statistics as weekly instead of daily.
    - j_walter 5y ago
      Actually you can just lie with your numbers...it's not 12K/week...it's 12K/day on a 7 day average. ~1,000/day for vaccinated, which means >11,000/day for unvaccinated Thank you for backing up your numbers with sources though.
      - hajile 5y ago
        I double checked (in case you were right and I messed up). EDIT: incorrect math here. Look at the breakdown per day. 3.54 per 100k on 9/7. 3.54 * 328.2 gives 1161 cases for that day. Very much within the moving average (there was a sharp decline that day). https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admissions https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admis... Even at the peak last January as tracked by the Atlantic, you can see that 12k hospitalizations per day didn't happen even on the most extreme jumps. https://covidtracking.com/data/charts/us-currently-hospitalized https://covidtracking.com/data/charts/us-currently-hospitali...
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
How are they going to test remote workers? Pretty much every tech company has 100+ employees and a significant number of them are working remote. Even if only 5% refuse to comply (it will be higher than that), it's going to be a nightmare for these companies, losing experienced workers with no time for knowledge transfer or even ability to find replacements to transfer that knowledge to. In a tight labor market, this is going to cause unimaginable economic damage and I don't see how the government turns on the cash firehose for something so difficult for companies to quantify the damage from.
muttantt 5y ago
If you need sweeping mandates to force people to vaccinate in order to protect already-vaccinated people... does the vaccine actually work?
rajin444 5y ago
Why are European countries like Denmark and Sweden able to open up almost entirely, but we're doubling down? Especially Sweden, who hasn't really implemented much of anything accept advice and vaccine availability.
- hihihihi1234 5y ago
  Because it isn't about controlling the virus, it's about money and power.

24 points by fspacef 5y ago

This administration is fascist trash.

Really pains me to see this happen. I guess I didnt really know my country, and unfortunately while it was nice to pull myself out of poverty in principal I suppose I have to go back -- simply cannot fit into this mindset/stuff/whatever it is. Im not an anti vaxxer -- i just dont agree with this sort of mind set, much less the surrounding glee.

j_walter 5y ago

What ever happened to "my body my choice"? I'm vaccinated because it was the right choice for me. I don't agree with mandating it for everyone.

kmos17 5y ago
Like every other American you already are vaccinated for several other diseases since childhood. This country has gone down the tubes with personal freedom absolutism, there are some times when the government mandating a health measure makes sense, this is one.
- Covzire 5y ago
  Your argument boils down to "for the good of the majority will the minority be stripped of their rights", the same fucking argument was used in Nazi Germany against invalids, sick people and later Jews. This mandate is flagrantly unconstitutional, unnecessary and plain fucking evil. If the federal government isn't stopped cold here, there is absolutely no limit to their power to oppress more minority groups for any reason they dream of.
- 650 5y ago
  >"Like every other American you already are vaccinated for several other diseases since childhood." Slippery slope in practice is this scenario. You were already injected with X and Y before you could consent or understand. What's Z more? Edit: I do not object to previously-normal vaccinations, where you are pretty much one-and-done in your youth, and don't have to continually prove them when you try to do day-to-day life. I object to the new notion that we can impose them for everything in the world. I am 110% against the notion of requiring a vaccine card to go to a bar or board a flight, and will boycott any business that asks this of me. No "Papiere, Bitte" bullshit. If I have to accept the latter if I accept the former, then I am against the former.
- j_walter 5y ago
  Ummm...not every other American (no where near 100%). Also those vaccines are tried and tested for decades...not pushed through FDA approval and side effects hidden from public view. I personally know 2 people that had major side effects and one of them is still not recovered (legally blind due to strokes she had 2 months ago, a day after her first vaccine shot). The other had a heart attack 2 days after his vaccine shot. Both could be just a coincidence in timing...but that's a hell of a coincidence..
  - hajile 5y ago
    The numbers get REALY bad when you look at vaccinating kids. 486 kids dead from covid [0] over almost 2 years. For reference, over 24,000 kids died during that same period from various accidents. 6,488 kids committed suicide in 2019 alone [1] and those rates have supposedly gone up since, so at least 13,000 kids killed themselves during this pandemic. There have been at least 250 myocarditis/myopericarditis VAERS complaints (that's inflammation of the heart or heart sack) in kids [2]. When accounting for the much lower child vaccination rates, that's very bad. They were looking at 2.5k reports at that time, but they are now up to 5-6k myocarditis reports now (and kids are being vaccinated at an increasing rate). Normal VAERS reporting rates are estimated to be around 1% of all people with side effects[3] if for no other reason than people just don't know it exists. Despite this, there have been over 650,000 reports including 14,000 deaths, 18,000 permanently disabled, and 76,000 hospital visits [4]. If the VAERS statistics hold true as they have historically, there are more like 60,000,000 people who actually suffered side effects. [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-on-Ages-0-18-Yea/nr4s-juj3 https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-... [1] https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide [2] https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-08-30/03-COVID-Su-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-... [3] https://digital.ahrq.gov/ahrq-funded-projects/electronic-support-public-health-vaccine-adverse-event-reporting-system https://digital.ahrq.gov/ahrq-funded-projects/electronic-sup... [4] https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data
  - kmos17 5y ago
    You personally know two people with maybe side effects, meanwhile we know of over 600k dead Americans from the virus. We also know 99% of hospitalizations are now from unvaccinated people. The math is not in favor of your logic.

h2odragon 5y ago

So any medical condition that contra-indicates covid vaccination will become a "total disability" then? if it's important enough to mandate, surely its important enough to sacrifice the contributions of those valued cow orkers who, alas, aren't able to participate, for the Greater Good and all... Or if medical exceptions are allowed, doesn't that kind of belie the whole basis of the mandate? COVID isn't smallpox.

hajile 5y ago

Let's take Biden's facts at face value. CDC says the current running average is 12,156 covid hospitalizations per week [0]. 175M vaccinated according to Biden 1 in 160,000 hospitalized per day according to biden Total US population is 328.2M, so 153.2M are unvaccinated. CDC says 1736.57 hospitalizations per day at present. 175e6 / 160e3 = 1094 vaccinated hospitalized per day That leaves 643 unvaccinated people hospitalized per day 153.2e6 / 643 = 1 unvaccinated per 238k hospitalized per day If the President and CDC are not lying, then unvaccinated people are NOT the problem. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidvi...

kmos17 5y ago
99% of hospitalized are unvaccinated: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19-hospitalizations-nonvaccinated.amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19... this from fox news.
- hajile 5y ago
  You have a choice then. Either Fox News lied/was misled or Biden and the CDC lied. EDIT: alternatively, I misread the CDC statistics as weekly instead of daily.
  - j_walter 5y ago
    Actually you can just lie with your numbers...it's not 12K/week...it's 12K/day on a 7 day average. ~1,000/day for vaccinated, which means >11,000/day for unvaccinated Thank you for backing up your numbers with sources though.
    - hajile 5y ago
      I double checked (in case you were right and I messed up). EDIT: incorrect math here. Look at the breakdown per day. 3.54 per 100k on 9/7. 3.54 * 328.2 gives 1161 cases for that day. Very much within the moving average (there was a sharp decline that day). https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admissions https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admis... Even at the peak last January as tracked by the Atlantic, you can see that 12k hospitalizations per day didn't happen even on the most extreme jumps. https://covidtracking.com/data/charts/us-currently-hospitalized https://covidtracking.com/data/charts/us-currently-hospitali...

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

How are they going to test remote workers? Pretty much every tech company has 100+ employees and a significant number of them are working remote. Even if only 5% refuse to comply (it will be higher than that), it's going to be a nightmare for these companies, losing experienced workers with no time for knowledge transfer or even ability to find replacements to transfer that knowledge to. In a tight labor market, this is going to cause unimaginable economic damage and I don't see how the government turns on the cash firehose for something so difficult for companies to quantify the damage from.

muttantt 5y ago

If you need sweeping mandates to force people to vaccinate in order to protect already-vaccinated people... does the vaccine actually work?

rajin444 5y ago

Why are European countries like Denmark and Sweden able to open up almost entirely, but we're doubling down? Especially Sweden, who hasn't really implemented much of anything accept advice and vaccine availability.

hihihihi1234 5y ago
Because it isn't about controlling the virus, it's about money and power.