4 ms·

My takeaway is the opposite: I'm pleasantly surprised with how many people are vaccinated, and how quickly. It's hard to get 2/3rds of Americans to agree on ju

My takeaway is the opposite: I'm pleasantly surprised with how many people are vaccinated, and how quickly. It's hard to get 2/3rds of Americans to agree on just about anything. When you look at the hold-outs, it's largely young people who are at very low risk of serious illness. (85% of 65 and older are vaccinated, but just 57% of people 18-29.) So it makes sense to me that they are more hesitant.

not2b 5y ago
No, it's only been hard to get 2/3 of Americans to go along quite recently. Everyone lined up for vaccines in the 1950s and 1960s, numbers well over 90%.
- Gibbon1 5y ago
  Consider that in 1955 one of the companies producing the Salk Vaccine shipped 120,000 doses with live virus which sickened 40,000 children and sparked a polio epidemic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories#Cutter_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories#Cutter_inc...
  - adriancr 5y ago
    And yet numbers were still 90%+, so what does that say about their views on vaccine usefulness?
    - herbst 5y ago
      Or does it just tell the story of a time without easily accessible open media?
      - adriancr 5y ago
        Fair, although I could look at that open media as propaganda/brainwashing and reach a conclusion on media's effectiveness. I can also look at the past and ask if vaccines eradicated the diseases it was meant for... and for that it was incredibly effective.
        herbst 5y ago
        But is that even true? Have you seen this graphic for example https://postimg.cc/CBJQF4dZ https://postimg.cc/CBJQF4dZ Edit:// I don't know how truthful it is. But vaccines seem not always the resolving factor. Source of the image: https://learntherisk.org/vaccines/diseases/ https://learntherisk.org/vaccines/diseases/
        adriancr 5y ago
        objectively, polio was eradicated via vaccine. objectively, US had a fighting chance in its independence war due to George Washington's forced immunization of armies. What you are sharing is proof that propaganda works. You are sharing non-scholarly articles from untrustworthy websites.. It's absurd because anyone can set up a website at anytime with charts/data saying anything we might want and reach any conclusion we want. This is what you are sharing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learn_The_Risk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learn_The_Risk but I guess you did not do your own research on what you are consuming... Their arguments are disputed in the wikipedia links if you want to inform yourself. > Arguments against vaccination are contradicted by overwhelming scientific consensus about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines.[7][8][9][10] It's also a non profit set up by an antivaxer that has no research/investigative capabilities, all they do is gather donations and spread fake data to gather more donations.
    - roenxi 5y ago
      It says they had their trust badly abused by the sort of people who push for universal vaccination, and learned from it.
  - croon 5y ago
    Why should we consider it? Billions of people have been vaccinated without a vaccine-caused epidemic. We do however have a virus-caused epidemic, currently.
    - Gibbon1 5y ago
      It's just stark the difference between adults back then and the overly coddled people passing for adults today.
  - acdha 5y ago
    What are we supposed to learn from that example? Companies developed safer techniques, government testing plans improved, it sounds like the system was improved in response to the kind of thing which happens with new technology. More importantly, however, it happened in an era where everyone agreed that polio was worth avoiding. The modern antivax movement was founded on Andrew Wakefield’s fraudulent attempts to cash in on test kits and lawsuits brought against vaccine manufacturers but it also critically depended on people who had grown up in a world of ubiquitous vaccination and preventative medicine, where vague claims sounded dire because the imagined baseline was “life is basically okay” rather than “I know multiple kids who died or were scarred for life” as their parents had known. Finally, there wasn’t a major political movement putting a billion-dollar propaganda machine to work spreading false claims and downplaying the real impact of a disease.
titzer 5y ago
I have extended family--aunts, uncles, cousins--who all decided not to get vaccinated. There are young people who can't be bothered to do a damn thing, but hesitancy among a particular political persuasion is rampant.
- leereeves 5y ago
  People of that "particular political persuasion" have lost trust in most institutions. Unfortunately they're discarding some good things (like the vaccine) along with the bad.
- kcplate 5y ago
  It’s not just “that particular political persuasion”. It’s wide spectrum of folks. We love to single out that “political persuasion” but I think you will find that this mandate will frustrate and potentially financially hurt a lot of folks that are not of that “political persuasion”. This will of course make more people of that “political persuasion”.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

not2b 5y ago

No, it's only been hard to get 2/3 of Americans to go along quite recently. Everyone lined up for vaccines in the 1950s and 1960s, numbers well over 90%.

Gibbon1 5y ago
Consider that in 1955 one of the companies producing the Salk Vaccine shipped 120,000 doses with live virus which sickened 40,000 children and sparked a polio epidemic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories#Cutter_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories#Cutter_inc...
- adriancr 5y ago
  And yet numbers were still 90%+, so what does that say about their views on vaccine usefulness?
  - herbst 5y ago
    Or does it just tell the story of a time without easily accessible open media?
    - adriancr 5y ago
      Fair, although I could look at that open media as propaganda/brainwashing and reach a conclusion on media's effectiveness. I can also look at the past and ask if vaccines eradicated the diseases it was meant for... and for that it was incredibly effective.
      - herbst 5y ago
        But is that even true? Have you seen this graphic for example https://postimg.cc/CBJQF4dZ https://postimg.cc/CBJQF4dZ Edit:// I don't know how truthful it is. But vaccines seem not always the resolving factor. Source of the image: https://learntherisk.org/vaccines/diseases/ https://learntherisk.org/vaccines/diseases/
        adriancr 5y ago
        objectively, polio was eradicated via vaccine. objectively, US had a fighting chance in its independence war due to George Washington's forced immunization of armies. What you are sharing is proof that propaganda works. You are sharing non-scholarly articles from untrustworthy websites.. It's absurd because anyone can set up a website at anytime with charts/data saying anything we might want and reach any conclusion we want. This is what you are sharing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learn_The_Risk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learn_The_Risk but I guess you did not do your own research on what you are consuming... Their arguments are disputed in the wikipedia links if you want to inform yourself. > Arguments against vaccination are contradicted by overwhelming scientific consensus about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines.[7][8][9][10] It's also a non profit set up by an antivaxer that has no research/investigative capabilities, all they do is gather donations and spread fake data to gather more donations.
  - roenxi 5y ago
    It says they had their trust badly abused by the sort of people who push for universal vaccination, and learned from it.
- croon 5y ago
  Why should we consider it? Billions of people have been vaccinated without a vaccine-caused epidemic. We do however have a virus-caused epidemic, currently.
  - Gibbon1 5y ago
    It's just stark the difference between adults back then and the overly coddled people passing for adults today.
- acdha 5y ago
  What are we supposed to learn from that example? Companies developed safer techniques, government testing plans improved, it sounds like the system was improved in response to the kind of thing which happens with new technology. More importantly, however, it happened in an era where everyone agreed that polio was worth avoiding. The modern antivax movement was founded on Andrew Wakefield’s fraudulent attempts to cash in on test kits and lawsuits brought against vaccine manufacturers but it also critically depended on people who had grown up in a world of ubiquitous vaccination and preventative medicine, where vague claims sounded dire because the imagined baseline was “life is basically okay” rather than “I know multiple kids who died or were scarred for life” as their parents had known. Finally, there wasn’t a major political movement putting a billion-dollar propaganda machine to work spreading false claims and downplaying the real impact of a disease.

titzer 5y ago

I have extended family--aunts, uncles, cousins--who all decided not to get vaccinated. There are young people who can't be bothered to do a damn thing, but hesitancy among a particular political persuasion is rampant.

leereeves 5y ago
People of that "particular political persuasion" have lost trust in most institutions. Unfortunately they're discarding some good things (like the vaccine) along with the bad.
kcplate 5y ago
It’s not just “that particular political persuasion”. It’s wide spectrum of folks. We love to single out that “political persuasion” but I think you will find that this mandate will frustrate and potentially financially hurt a lot of folks that are not of that “political persuasion”. This will of course make more people of that “political persuasion”.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]