5 ms·

And where does the line for public "health" get drawn? Who draws it, the ruling party in power? Everything is health based if you want it to be.

1270018080 5y ago
"Everything is health based if you want it to be." What is the point of this comment? He is mandating a vaccine during a pandemic.
landryraccoon 5y ago
This argument is so tired. It applies to almost every single service provided by any government anywhere. New traffic regulations? Everyone needs transportation to get somewhere. Controlling transport controls everything. This is a road to tyranny, etc, etc.. New worker's regulations? Everyone needs a job in our economy! Controlling wages controls people's lives! This is authoritarianism, etc... New taxes? Everything you need to survive could be taxed! When does it end?? etc, etc.. The most minor policy change anywhere runs into this utterly inane argument. Updated food standards? Building codes? Public hearing to add a stop sign? When will this government overreach end??? It's tired, it's pointless, it's been said millions of times by the same libertarian/anarchists for a century. It adds nothing new to the conversation.
question000 5y ago
I mean he answered these questions. The line is drawn here.
wk_end 5y ago
Well, I'm not exactly sure what the line is. In the US, as with all things related to government power, it's decided jointly through the work of the three branches of government and the factors that influence them - democratic appeal, the constitution, jurisprudence, and so on. At any rate, "vaccination for a highly infectious, potentially deadly virus" indisputably counts as "health". Everything might be health-based if you want it to be (maybe), but the nature of the American system hopefully and usually minimizes room for abuse of that power - and certainly there's no appearance of abuse of that power here, now.
cbdumas 5y ago
That line would be drawn through elections, legislation, and court decisions. Decisions like the one OP was referring to [0] where the Supreme Court found that compulsory vaccination is within the state's power, and further that "[r]eal liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own [liberty], whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others." 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts
not2b 5y ago
Slippery slope arguments are a way of avoiding discussing whether a particular proposal is good, by suggesting that they will lead to other, less positive developments. Better to evaluate each action on its own. Vaccination requirements have been a standard practice for well over a hundred years now, and the case for mandating a vaccine for Covid-19 is much, much better than the case for mandating many other vaccines that are already required. This is health-based, clearly, and not just "if you want it to be".
albertop 5y ago
In Australia government now controls how much alcohol people can consume in their locked down homes. They are searching all bags and things coming into the building. That is the line now. How far it will go we will see.
- albertop 5y ago
  Also: In one of the most callous examples of exclusionary state politics in practice, last year the Queensland government denied a 14-year-old double-lung transplant patient from NSW access to his specialist doctor, declaring that Queensland hospitals were for Queenslanders.

1270018080 5y ago

"Everything is health based if you want it to be." What is the point of this comment? He is mandating a vaccine during a pandemic.

landryraccoon 5y ago

This argument is so tired. It applies to almost every single service provided by any government anywhere. New traffic regulations? Everyone needs transportation to get somewhere. Controlling transport controls everything. This is a road to tyranny, etc, etc.. New worker's regulations? Everyone needs a job in our economy! Controlling wages controls people's lives! This is authoritarianism, etc... New taxes? Everything you need to survive could be taxed! When does it end?? etc, etc.. The most minor policy change anywhere runs into this utterly inane argument. Updated food standards? Building codes? Public hearing to add a stop sign? When will this government overreach end??? It's tired, it's pointless, it's been said millions of times by the same libertarian/anarchists for a century. It adds nothing new to the conversation.

question000 5y ago

I mean he answered these questions. The line is drawn here.

wk_end 5y ago

Well, I'm not exactly sure what the line is. In the US, as with all things related to government power, it's decided jointly through the work of the three branches of government and the factors that influence them - democratic appeal, the constitution, jurisprudence, and so on. At any rate, "vaccination for a highly infectious, potentially deadly virus" indisputably counts as "health". Everything might be health-based if you want it to be (maybe), but the nature of the American system hopefully and usually minimizes room for abuse of that power - and certainly there's no appearance of abuse of that power here, now.

cbdumas 5y ago

That line would be drawn through elections, legislation, and court decisions. Decisions like the one OP was referring to [0] where the Supreme Court found that compulsory vaccination is within the state's power, and further that "[r]eal liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own [liberty], whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others." 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts

not2b 5y ago

Slippery slope arguments are a way of avoiding discussing whether a particular proposal is good, by suggesting that they will lead to other, less positive developments. Better to evaluate each action on its own. Vaccination requirements have been a standard practice for well over a hundred years now, and the case for mandating a vaccine for Covid-19 is much, much better than the case for mandating many other vaccines that are already required. This is health-based, clearly, and not just "if you want it to be".

albertop 5y ago

In Australia government now controls how much alcohol people can consume in their locked down homes. They are searching all bags and things coming into the building. That is the line now. How far it will go we will see.

albertop 5y ago
Also: In one of the most callous examples of exclusionary state politics in practice, last year the Queensland government denied a 14-year-old double-lung transplant patient from NSW access to his specialist doctor, declaring that Queensland hospitals were for Queenslanders.