6 ms·

In which a laptop defies the trends

56 points by psanford 5y ago

PaulHoule 5y ago
My son has been repackaging a laptop in a suitcase which leaves me thinking about what you could do if you wanted to bring back this form factor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1 If you are never going to take it on a plane you can add a lot of batteries and I was thinking it might be fun to make a computer powered by electric car batteries just as electric cars were powered by laptop batteries for a time.
- johndoe0815 5y ago
  It was common to use a briefcase and build an Apple-1 into it - https://earthlymission.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Original_1976_Apple_1_Computer_In_A_Briefcase.jpg https://earthlymission.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Origin... However, you still had to carry the CRT screen (unless you knew that a TV was available where you wanted to use it :)).
ecpottinger 5y ago
I still found it lacking I/O ports for my general use. No high speed serial ports, and yes I have tried the USB<>RS232 ports, they do not keep up at true high speeds/ No parallel ports, not for printer but to have high speed input and output of digital lines. No I2C port which has it limits, but i can get a lot of chips that will work with it. Some of us want I/O that will work with our own hardware.
- fho 5y ago
  > general use ... starts to quote several ports that haven't been used in consumer electronics for ages (or ... outside consumer electronics in the case of I2C).
  - bebna 5y ago
    The blog post starts with replacements for an X301, and I guess, people like that/us are using the notebooks for getting work done and don't care about "consumer" stuff. Serial and Parallel ports are still important if you are running around a factory floor. That is also why still got a T400 and X201 in working order, because over their card slots I can still can get a good serial port.
    - taylodl 5y ago
      The problem is running around the factory floor. I tried to solve that problem when I worked at Cutler-Hammer Automation years ago. Problem was no one was able to even conceive of doing things a different way - that's the way they've always done it. Now they're realizing they're too niche for the market to cater to? SMH
  - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
    - There are plenty of industrial applications that still make use of legacy comms protocols. Those people need laptops too. - There are 30 million Raspberry pi's sold worldwide and at least a quarter of a million Arduino boards, even more so if you add the clones and knock offs. There is a world of non-professional 'consumer grade' makers and hobbyist that would love to have a more diverse offering in consumer electronics. instead CES just feels more and more like the Auto trade shows where cars keep converging to more and more homogenous things and designers risk less and less, at some point you are just changing branding and not much else because all the components come from the same handful of suppliers. Corporations have stopped taking risks that much is apparent.
1MachineElf 5y ago
I too am excited for OLKB's replacement keyboard for the MNT Reform[0]. I seriously have enough ThinkPads to last me the rest of my life, but that one feature... It would be enough to make me buy another black bulky tank of a laptop. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/olkb/comments/ocf32y/ortholinear_laptop_making_a_keyboard_kit_for_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/olkb/comments/ocf32y/ortholinear_la...
option_greek 5y ago
For those missing sturdy builds, ports, replaceable parts, explore gaming laptops. They have all those and are built to last and be upgradeable. Just ensure to use it in. Integrated graphics mode and the battery backup would be great too. And thanks to the better thermals, parts don't fail so easily.
- bodge5000 5y ago
  Maybe you've had better luck, but in my experience, I'd advise avoiding gaming laptops like the plague. The build quality is alright depending on how you look at it. Better than most other laptops, but most other laptops are half the price. Looking at laptops in the same price range, usuablly they're about the same in my experience. They're fairly upgradable, you can swap the RAM and storage and often the battery, but that's about it. Where they really fail is on the thermals. They certainly have better airflow than non-gaming laptops, but the amount of heat they produce is orders of magnitude more, and the gain in cooling is not as great as the gain in heat generated. Most gaming laptops have a battery that will last maybe 3 years at most. Mine (which I'm looking to replace) didn't even last 1 year before it swelled to the point where I could get the backplate back on with the battery still in. Luckily it works for the time being on permenant power. Meanwhile, my old x240, which I've had for about four years, is still going strong with no issues. I push that laptop hard, far harder comparitive to its specs than I did the gaming laptop. Edit: For clarity I should say that my particular gaming laptop was a Razer Blade, which I do hear is one of the worse performers in terms of thermals, although its also listed as one of the best for build quality and upgradability, so its a bit of a mixed bag. I had an older gaming laptop which had better thermals but worse everything else, so as usual, YMMV
  - option_greek 5y ago
    The secret is in tuning of GPU and CPU TDP to a lower level to ensure the thermals are much better. In a gaming laptop they come configured much higher while in regular laptop its much lower. So to make this work, the laptop will have to be run a lower TDP mode (which will still beat normal laptops on thermals and power) and switch to integrated graphics. Most manufacturers provide software to do just that. The battery life also increases once the thermals become better. On top of that, manufacturers like Asus provide software to extend battery lifespan by capping the max battery charge to 60%. This helps a lot because most of the time battery life goes down when laptops end up being on adapter all time (like gaming laptops tend to be).
dTal 5y ago
A glossy screen is not "Appleization" in the sense the author means - pointless aesthetics at the expense of functionality. Glossy screens inherently have superior contrast, especially in sunlight. The reason is simple - they reflect incoming light at its incident angle, while matte screens smear it over all angles. Thus, unless you happen to be in sitting at precisely the wrong angle, matte screens reflect more sunlight into your face. With a glossy screen you can shuffle around until the reflection suits you, but with matte you are stuck with an average.
- tingol 5y ago
  I don't know in which world you live in but there is no amount of shuffling that can make you see stuff with a glossy screen out in the sun...
  - dTal 5y ago
    Well, our experiences are at odds then. Every glossy-screened device I own is usable outside, and none of my matte-screened devices are. It's not a mystery, the physics are straightforward. Gloss improves contrast by lowering black levels. The same effect causes water to darken concrete. If matte was so much better, wouldn't there be a market for matte overlays for smartphones? Yet smartphones are universally glossy, and universally legible outside.
    - tingol 5y ago
      You can't use your fingers on matte screens.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - dTal 5y ago
        Sure you can. Why wouldn't you?
      - officeplant 5y ago
hyperstar 5y ago
Is this a COMPLETELY free computer or not?
- vkoskiv 5y ago
  TL;DR: Enabling the external HDMI connector requires the use of a proprietary blob (DRM malware) and the DDR4 memory controller has a small firmware blob that you need.
bodge5000 5y ago
Bit of a shame about the lack of thunderbolt, but I guess thats proprietary. For me, I'll stick to thinkpads. This certainly has some big advantages over them, but at roughly 5 times the price for similar specs, I'll swallow that pill for now
- deepsun 5y ago
  Thunderbolt is the worst security hole you can imagine. It just gives direct memory access to, well, pretty much everything. So it's trivial to install a backdoor, like it was back in Win95 era.
  - bodge5000 5y ago
    Yeh maybe, but I still find it really useful for laptops, especially if you intend to use it as a desktop replacement
    - deepsun 5y ago
      Mmm, I used a Thunderbolt (T530 I believe) for 2 years without opening it at all, I just had two dock stations at work and at home. So it was pretty much desktop replacement. But it was as proprietary as Thunderbolt. USB-C would be much better.
tharne 5y ago
This is fantastic. I love seeing things like this and the framework laptop starting to emerge. Even if it's clearly just a niche market thing, it's awesome to see some pushback against disposable everything.

56 points by psanford 5y ago

My son has been repackaging a laptop in a suitcase which leaves me thinking about what you could do if you wanted to bring back this form factor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1 If you are never going to take it on a plane you can add a lot of batteries and I was thinking it might be fun to make a computer powered by electric car batteries just as electric cars were powered by laptop batteries for a time.

johndoe0815 5y ago
It was common to use a briefcase and build an Apple-1 into it - https://earthlymission.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Original_1976_Apple_1_Computer_In_A_Briefcase.jpg https://earthlymission.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Origin... However, you still had to carry the CRT screen (unless you knew that a TV was available where you wanted to use it :)).

ecpottinger 5y ago

I still found it lacking I/O ports for my general use. No high speed serial ports, and yes I have tried the USB<>RS232 ports, they do not keep up at true high speeds/ No parallel ports, not for printer but to have high speed input and output of digital lines. No I2C port which has it limits, but i can get a lot of chips that will work with it. Some of us want I/O that will work with our own hardware.

fho 5y ago
> general use ... starts to quote several ports that haven't been used in consumer electronics for ages (or ... outside consumer electronics in the case of I2C).
- bebna 5y ago
  The blog post starts with replacements for an X301, and I guess, people like that/us are using the notebooks for getting work done and don't care about "consumer" stuff. Serial and Parallel ports are still important if you are running around a factory floor. That is also why still got a T400 and X201 in working order, because over their card slots I can still can get a good serial port.
  - taylodl 5y ago
    The problem is running around the factory floor. I tried to solve that problem when I worked at Cutler-Hammer Automation years ago. Problem was no one was able to even conceive of doing things a different way - that's the way they've always done it. Now they're realizing they're too niche for the market to cater to? SMH
- DoingIsLearning 5y ago
  - There are plenty of industrial applications that still make use of legacy comms protocols. Those people need laptops too. - There are 30 million Raspberry pi's sold worldwide and at least a quarter of a million Arduino boards, even more so if you add the clones and knock offs. There is a world of non-professional 'consumer grade' makers and hobbyist that would love to have a more diverse offering in consumer electronics. instead CES just feels more and more like the Auto trade shows where cars keep converging to more and more homogenous things and designers risk less and less, at some point you are just changing branding and not much else because all the components come from the same handful of suppliers. Corporations have stopped taking risks that much is apparent.

1MachineElf 5y ago

I too am excited for OLKB's replacement keyboard for the MNT Reform[0]. I seriously have enough ThinkPads to last me the rest of my life, but that one feature... It would be enough to make me buy another black bulky tank of a laptop. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/olkb/comments/ocf32y/ortholinear_laptop_making_a_keyboard_kit_for_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/olkb/comments/ocf32y/ortholinear_la...

option_greek 5y ago

For those missing sturdy builds, ports, replaceable parts, explore gaming laptops. They have all those and are built to last and be upgradeable. Just ensure to use it in. Integrated graphics mode and the battery backup would be great too. And thanks to the better thermals, parts don't fail so easily.

bodge5000 5y ago
Maybe you've had better luck, but in my experience, I'd advise avoiding gaming laptops like the plague. The build quality is alright depending on how you look at it. Better than most other laptops, but most other laptops are half the price. Looking at laptops in the same price range, usuablly they're about the same in my experience. They're fairly upgradable, you can swap the RAM and storage and often the battery, but that's about it. Where they really fail is on the thermals. They certainly have better airflow than non-gaming laptops, but the amount of heat they produce is orders of magnitude more, and the gain in cooling is not as great as the gain in heat generated. Most gaming laptops have a battery that will last maybe 3 years at most. Mine (which I'm looking to replace) didn't even last 1 year before it swelled to the point where I could get the backplate back on with the battery still in. Luckily it works for the time being on permenant power. Meanwhile, my old x240, which I've had for about four years, is still going strong with no issues. I push that laptop hard, far harder comparitive to its specs than I did the gaming laptop. Edit: For clarity I should say that my particular gaming laptop was a Razer Blade, which I do hear is one of the worse performers in terms of thermals, although its also listed as one of the best for build quality and upgradability, so its a bit of a mixed bag. I had an older gaming laptop which had better thermals but worse everything else, so as usual, YMMV
- option_greek 5y ago
  The secret is in tuning of GPU and CPU TDP to a lower level to ensure the thermals are much better. In a gaming laptop they come configured much higher while in regular laptop its much lower. So to make this work, the laptop will have to be run a lower TDP mode (which will still beat normal laptops on thermals and power) and switch to integrated graphics. Most manufacturers provide software to do just that. The battery life also increases once the thermals become better. On top of that, manufacturers like Asus provide software to extend battery lifespan by capping the max battery charge to 60%. This helps a lot because most of the time battery life goes down when laptops end up being on adapter all time (like gaming laptops tend to be).

dTal 5y ago

A glossy screen is not "Appleization" in the sense the author means - pointless aesthetics at the expense of functionality. Glossy screens inherently have superior contrast, especially in sunlight. The reason is simple - they reflect incoming light at its incident angle, while matte screens smear it over all angles. Thus, unless you happen to be in sitting at precisely the wrong angle, matte screens reflect more sunlight into your face. With a glossy screen you can shuffle around until the reflection suits you, but with matte you are stuck with an average.

tingol 5y ago
I don't know in which world you live in but there is no amount of shuffling that can make you see stuff with a glossy screen out in the sun...
- dTal 5y ago
  Well, our experiences are at odds then. Every glossy-screened device I own is usable outside, and none of my matte-screened devices are. It's not a mystery, the physics are straightforward. Gloss improves contrast by lowering black levels. The same effect causes water to darken concrete. If matte was so much better, wouldn't there be a market for matte overlays for smartphones? Yet smartphones are universally glossy, and universally legible outside.
  - tingol 5y ago
    You can't use your fingers on matte screens.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - dTal 5y ago
      Sure you can. Why wouldn't you?
    - officeplant 5y ago

hyperstar 5y ago

Is this a COMPLETELY free computer or not?

vkoskiv 5y ago
TL;DR: Enabling the external HDMI connector requires the use of a proprietary blob (DRM malware) and the DDR4 memory controller has a small firmware blob that you need.

bodge5000 5y ago

Bit of a shame about the lack of thunderbolt, but I guess thats proprietary. For me, I'll stick to thinkpads. This certainly has some big advantages over them, but at roughly 5 times the price for similar specs, I'll swallow that pill for now

deepsun 5y ago
Thunderbolt is the worst security hole you can imagine. It just gives direct memory access to, well, pretty much everything. So it's trivial to install a backdoor, like it was back in Win95 era.
- bodge5000 5y ago
  Yeh maybe, but I still find it really useful for laptops, especially if you intend to use it as a desktop replacement
  - deepsun 5y ago
    Mmm, I used a Thunderbolt (T530 I believe) for 2 years without opening it at all, I just had two dock stations at work and at home. So it was pretty much desktop replacement. But it was as proprietary as Thunderbolt. USB-C would be much better.

tharne 5y ago

This is fantastic. I love seeing things like this and the framework laptop starting to emerge. Even if it's clearly just a niche market thing, it's awesome to see some pushback against disposable everything.