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I think the article is conflating people's acceptance of web apps with people's appreciation of web apps. Web apps (or electron apps) are always worse than a we

I think the article is conflating people's acceptance of web apps with people's appreciation of web apps. Web apps (or electron apps) are always worse than a well-written native counterpart in every verifiable UX metric. Let's not kid ourselves: web apps and electron apps are developer-experience focused, not user centered.

phyrex 5y ago
I believe that’s what the article said too. Where do you see him conflating this?
- cosmotic 5y ago
  I suppose it might have been what I inferred when the author said "Yet it has been a massive success. I think it means our industry is craving for a good desktop UI framework."
Zababa 5y ago
> Web apps (or electron apps) are always worse than a well-written native counterpart in every verifiable UX metric. That is true. > Let's not kid ourselves: web apps and electron apps are developer-experience focused, not user centered. That isn't true. I spend most of my days on Linux. Before web and electron apps, the alternatives were not well-written native apps. The alternatives were "Use another program". As a user, I'm really glad many things are web-centric these days.
- cosmotic 5y ago
  I think you're benefiting from the coincidence that developers (managers?) chose Electron + 1 code base and void of well-written apps due to low market share. Sure, an electron app is better than a broken side project. But a fully native linux app would handily beat the electron app. If there were a larger market share, there would be more well-written native apps. If devs focused on users, the easily-ported mediocre electron app wouldn't exist.
  - rochak 5y ago
    I would rather have a slow memory hogging app than no app at all.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Zababa 5y ago
    It's not a coincidence, Electron is here because some people don't like web apps. Managers chose web apps.
    - cosmotic 5y ago
      But the electron app IS a web app and has all the flaws of a web app, plus one more flaw: it doesn't share memory with the browser even though it's the same code (more or less). I believe their are some smaller electron-like projects that are lighter weight, though you're still stuck with a non-native web app in a shell.
      - Zababa 5y ago
        It is a web app for us developers, but for most people it's not really since they can install it and use it like a native app.
- goatlover 5y ago
  Java apps weren't an alternative? Wasn't the initial promise of Java in the late 90s to write once and run anywhere? Not applets but the desktop applications using Swing or AWT.
  - Zababa 5y ago
    It was, but then the web actually delivered on that promise, and people needed a web app anyways. Why make two apps when you can make only one?
BackBlast 5y ago
> Let's not kid ourselves: web apps and electron apps are developer-experience focused, not user centered. Developer problems turn into cost and schedule problems. Users very much care about cost and availability.
capableweb 5y ago
> Web apps (or electron apps) are always worse than a well-written native counterpart in every verifiable UX metric Seems like you have the data to back up this statement so if you do, please share :) I'm especially curious about the notion of "every verifiable UX metric" as UX tends to be very subjective. Could you please share what metrics these are that can independently confirm that a native app is always better than a web app?

phyrex 5y ago

I believe that’s what the article said too. Where do you see him conflating this?

cosmotic 5y ago
I suppose it might have been what I inferred when the author said "Yet it has been a massive success. I think it means our industry is craving for a good desktop UI framework."

Zababa 5y ago

> Web apps (or electron apps) are always worse than a well-written native counterpart in every verifiable UX metric. That is true. > Let's not kid ourselves: web apps and electron apps are developer-experience focused, not user centered. That isn't true. I spend most of my days on Linux. Before web and electron apps, the alternatives were not well-written native apps. The alternatives were "Use another program". As a user, I'm really glad many things are web-centric these days.

cosmotic 5y ago
I think you're benefiting from the coincidence that developers (managers?) chose Electron + 1 code base and void of well-written apps due to low market share. Sure, an electron app is better than a broken side project. But a fully native linux app would handily beat the electron app. If there were a larger market share, there would be more well-written native apps. If devs focused on users, the easily-ported mediocre electron app wouldn't exist.
- rochak 5y ago
  I would rather have a slow memory hogging app than no app at all.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Zababa 5y ago
  It's not a coincidence, Electron is here because some people don't like web apps. Managers chose web apps.
  - cosmotic 5y ago
    But the electron app IS a web app and has all the flaws of a web app, plus one more flaw: it doesn't share memory with the browser even though it's the same code (more or less). I believe their are some smaller electron-like projects that are lighter weight, though you're still stuck with a non-native web app in a shell.
    - Zababa 5y ago
      It is a web app for us developers, but for most people it's not really since they can install it and use it like a native app.
goatlover 5y ago
Java apps weren't an alternative? Wasn't the initial promise of Java in the late 90s to write once and run anywhere? Not applets but the desktop applications using Swing or AWT.
- Zababa 5y ago
  It was, but then the web actually delivered on that promise, and people needed a web app anyways. Why make two apps when you can make only one?

BackBlast 5y ago

> Let's not kid ourselves: web apps and electron apps are developer-experience focused, not user centered. Developer problems turn into cost and schedule problems. Users very much care about cost and availability.

capableweb 5y ago

> Web apps (or electron apps) are always worse than a well-written native counterpart in every verifiable UX metric Seems like you have the data to back up this statement so if you do, please share :) I'm especially curious about the notion of "every verifiable UX metric" as UX tends to be very subjective. Could you please share what metrics these are that can independently confirm that a native app is always better than a web app?