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At least in those instances, the union can negotiate for better (longer) quotas. In Amazon’s case, there’s no union to represent them. There’s the companies (th

At least in those instances, the union can negotiate for better (longer) quotas. In Amazon’s case, there’s no union to represent them. There’s the companies (that contract with Amazon) that the drivers work for, but they’re less powerful because there’s another company right next to you.

missedthecue 5y ago
In other words, they don't have a cartel/monopoly?
- cma 5y ago
  Amazon shareholders get stringent minority shareholder protection and legally protected collective voting schemes and can openly collude together against workers. A union gives somewhat similar rights to a similar stakeholder.
  - missedthecue 5y ago
    How can I, and Amazon shareholder, go collude with other Amazon shareholders? Tell me how this is possible. I've never heard of it. You can only collude with someone you were in competition with. Shareholders of the same company by definition cannot collude with each other because they are not competing. Collusion would be Walmart and Target and Costco and Amazon unionizing together to negotiate wages.
    - nicoffeine 5y ago
      "collude: cooperate in a secret or unlawful way in order to deceive or gain an advantage over others" Shareholder votes are public, but anonymous. The more typical scenario is that you hold on to the shares and create demand for the stock as a sign of your approval. Unless you own tens of thousands or more shares, you were probably not invited to the perfectly legal but private discussions about the proposals. Shareholders recently voted against every single proposal that was also opposed by Amazon.[1] [1] https://www.geekwire.com/2021/final-tally-amazon-shareholders-vote-proposals-pay-equity-privacy-tech/ https://www.geekwire.com/2021/final-tally-amazon-shareholder...
    - cma 5y ago
      >by definition I said "can openly" collude, not plain unadorned collude. Amazon buys a competitor and suddenly what would be considered collusion prior is washed clean, because someone else could bid too? My whole point is how silly this transformation from illegal to legal is, if at the same time you want to prevent unions. Unions BTW have similar restrictions to your second half of your comment (secondary strikes are illegal).
Jensson 5y ago
Amazon workers have the right to unionize if they want to. If state politicians can't convince them to unionize and instead have to pass laws targeting just that company because they didn't unionize then maybe there is a problem with the politicians instead.
- colejohnson66 5y ago
  This argument could be used against any kind of worker protection law. What’s different about this one?

missedthecue 5y ago

In other words, they don't have a cartel/monopoly?

cma 5y ago
Amazon shareholders get stringent minority shareholder protection and legally protected collective voting schemes and can openly collude together against workers. A union gives somewhat similar rights to a similar stakeholder.
- missedthecue 5y ago
  How can I, and Amazon shareholder, go collude with other Amazon shareholders? Tell me how this is possible. I've never heard of it. You can only collude with someone you were in competition with. Shareholders of the same company by definition cannot collude with each other because they are not competing. Collusion would be Walmart and Target and Costco and Amazon unionizing together to negotiate wages.
  - nicoffeine 5y ago
    "collude: cooperate in a secret or unlawful way in order to deceive or gain an advantage over others" Shareholder votes are public, but anonymous. The more typical scenario is that you hold on to the shares and create demand for the stock as a sign of your approval. Unless you own tens of thousands or more shares, you were probably not invited to the perfectly legal but private discussions about the proposals. Shareholders recently voted against every single proposal that was also opposed by Amazon.[1] [1] https://www.geekwire.com/2021/final-tally-amazon-shareholders-vote-proposals-pay-equity-privacy-tech/ https://www.geekwire.com/2021/final-tally-amazon-shareholder...
  - cma 5y ago
    >by definition I said "can openly" collude, not plain unadorned collude. Amazon buys a competitor and suddenly what would be considered collusion prior is washed clean, because someone else could bid too? My whole point is how silly this transformation from illegal to legal is, if at the same time you want to prevent unions. Unions BTW have similar restrictions to your second half of your comment (secondary strikes are illegal).

Jensson 5y ago

Amazon workers have the right to unionize if they want to. If state politicians can't convince them to unionize and instead have to pass laws targeting just that company because they didn't unionize then maybe there is a problem with the politicians instead.

colejohnson66 5y ago
This argument could be used against any kind of worker protection law. What’s different about this one?