5 ms·

Seems like the laws that require breaks don't preclude setting piecework quotas that make them impossible to use. See https://www.scribd.com/document/407590982

by tyingq 5y ago

Seems like the laws that require breaks don't preclude setting piecework quotas that make them impossible to use. See https://www.scribd.com/document/407590982/Amazon-Terminations#fullscreen&from_embed https://www.scribd.com/document/407590982/Amazon-Termination... Scroll down to "The system also tracks an associates time off task" It basically admits that "time off task" doesn't automatically account for bathroom breaks. You have to ask a manager to include each one, during the conversation where you're being scolded for high "time off task"! The wording in this section is Amazon's wording, too. Oof. Edit: After a bit of searching, there don't appear to be any federal laws requiring breaks in the US, and there are many states that don't have any either. Breaks: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/rest-periods https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/rest-periods Meals: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/meal-breaks https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/meal-breaks

jonshariat 5y ago
Nurses also have this problem. On a busy floor, they rarely get to use their breaks or have to quickly scarf down some food and run back.
- thebradbain 5y ago
  (Not all, but many) Nurses/Doctors are exempt employees though, which has its own set of rules. Warehouse workers aren't, generally
  - bluedino 5y ago
    Most nurses are hourly.
    - tssva 5y ago
      Hourly employees can be exempt.
- chefandy 5y ago
  When I was working in restaurants a decade ago, getting breaks was the exception rather than the norm.
  - bluedino 5y ago
    Depends on the culture/management. Some placed I worked forced the staff to go on break. Retail is the same way.
    - Talanes 5y ago
      Well, and local laws. Making sure people get their breaks has been part of the supervisor/manager role for every food service job I've had, but I'm in California where breaks are mandated by the government.
      - chefandy 5y ago
        California is kind of a different planet than the rest of the country for restaurant work. A good example is that tipped workers still get paid well in California where in Boston they still get paid $5.55/hr, if anything because many places do under-the-table tips-only work. That was $2.63/hr less than 5 years ago... and it's why folks from California have a 'slight' reputation for occasionally being worse tippers than others. Breaks are legally mandated a lot of places where people don't get them. I've known many hundreds of people that have worked in many thousands of restaurants in all positions in the northeast cities— NY, Boston, etc. Breaks for restaurant workers— aside from 5ish minute cigarette breaks— though legally mandated, are nearly unheard of. More often than not, the much exalted 'family meal' is cheap leftovers eaten while standing up in a back hallway or while doing other work. It's also very common for cooks to be given rules like "don't punch in more than 30 minutes before service, or punch out more than 30 minutes after service" even though you've got 2+ hours of setup and cleanup which you'll get fired for not completing. It's obviously not legal, but restaurant back of the house workers are so disempowered on a whole, that it really doesn't matter. If you're interested in seeing more about the local restaurant work culture, check out the saga of a Boston-based pizza chain "The Upper Crust." Their brazenness was based in experience for how these things were generally handled. The fact that they were punished for their behavior is the exception rather than the rule. Almost all restaurant work complaints that get sent to the AG are ignore. I know because I've sent 4, personally, for outright wage theft and know many others that sent complaints in for similar problems. This is obviously not true in corporate environments with more uniform employment policies.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kelnos 5y ago
It feels like most problems like this end up being defection scenarios in the prisoner's dilemma. If every worker would just take their breaks, and allow their quotas to slip, what is Amazon going to do? Fire everyone? But instead, individuals decide to look out for themselves first, and defect, which causes everyone to be miserable, including themselves. I don't blame them in the slightest for this, but it still makes me sad. I guess this is what unions are for. Oh wait, Amazon engages in union-busting, never mind.
- shados 5y ago
  Yup. These type of quotas are often used for promotion opportunities, too, so the carrot on the stick is very tempting. If they can just push themselves a little harder, they could make more money. If you push that to its extreme, you end up with people harming themselves quite a bit. Like you said, prisoner's dilemma.

by tyingq 5y ago

jonshariat 5y ago

Nurses also have this problem. On a busy floor, they rarely get to use their breaks or have to quickly scarf down some food and run back.

thebradbain 5y ago
(Not all, but many) Nurses/Doctors are exempt employees though, which has its own set of rules. Warehouse workers aren't, generally
- bluedino 5y ago
  Most nurses are hourly.
  - tssva 5y ago
    Hourly employees can be exempt.
chefandy 5y ago
When I was working in restaurants a decade ago, getting breaks was the exception rather than the norm.
- bluedino 5y ago
  Depends on the culture/management. Some placed I worked forced the staff to go on break. Retail is the same way.
  - Talanes 5y ago
    Well, and local laws. Making sure people get their breaks has been part of the supervisor/manager role for every food service job I've had, but I'm in California where breaks are mandated by the government.
    - chefandy 5y ago
      California is kind of a different planet than the rest of the country for restaurant work. A good example is that tipped workers still get paid well in California where in Boston they still get paid $5.55/hr, if anything because many places do under-the-table tips-only work. That was $2.63/hr less than 5 years ago... and it's why folks from California have a 'slight' reputation for occasionally being worse tippers than others. Breaks are legally mandated a lot of places where people don't get them. I've known many hundreds of people that have worked in many thousands of restaurants in all positions in the northeast cities— NY, Boston, etc. Breaks for restaurant workers— aside from 5ish minute cigarette breaks— though legally mandated, are nearly unheard of. More often than not, the much exalted 'family meal' is cheap leftovers eaten while standing up in a back hallway or while doing other work. It's also very common for cooks to be given rules like "don't punch in more than 30 minutes before service, or punch out more than 30 minutes after service" even though you've got 2+ hours of setup and cleanup which you'll get fired for not completing. It's obviously not legal, but restaurant back of the house workers are so disempowered on a whole, that it really doesn't matter. If you're interested in seeing more about the local restaurant work culture, check out the saga of a Boston-based pizza chain "The Upper Crust." Their brazenness was based in experience for how these things were generally handled. The fact that they were punished for their behavior is the exception rather than the rule. Almost all restaurant work complaints that get sent to the AG are ignore. I know because I've sent 4, personally, for outright wage theft and know many others that sent complaints in for similar problems. This is obviously not true in corporate environments with more uniform employment policies.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

kelnos 5y ago

It feels like most problems like this end up being defection scenarios in the prisoner's dilemma. If every worker would just take their breaks, and allow their quotas to slip, what is Amazon going to do? Fire everyone? But instead, individuals decide to look out for themselves first, and defect, which causes everyone to be miserable, including themselves. I don't blame them in the slightest for this, but it still makes me sad. I guess this is what unions are for. Oh wait, Amazon engages in union-busting, never mind.

shados 5y ago
Yup. These type of quotas are often used for promotion opportunities, too, so the carrot on the stick is very tempting. If they can just push themselves a little harder, they could make more money. If you push that to its extreme, you end up with people harming themselves quite a bit. Like you said, prisoner's dilemma.