6 ms·

Seems apt if you think that every time someone uses a transporter, they are really committing suicide with a new copy of themselves reconstituted elsewhere.

rnoorda 5y ago
For anyone interested in this conceit, I recommend an episode of The Outer Limits called "Think Like a Dinosaur" dealing with this idea and what happens when it goes wrong.
User23 5y ago
Part of why I don't see the appeal, even if it were possible, of uploading your "consciousness" whatever that is, to extend "life." It's not you, and you're still dead.
- teekert 5y ago
  The pattern that is "the other" you will argue otherwise.
  - ASalazarMX 5y ago
    In fact, the other you would be very grateful that you (both) didn't succumb to narcissism, and instead copied your consciousness to a better body.
- Aperocky 5y ago
  Not if there's a transition, a migration if you will.
  - User23 5y ago
    Digital metempsychosis is an interesting religious belief. From an anthropological perspective I find it fascinating how the same old ideas get reimagined as technology changes. Feels like how the Sidhe got replaced by the Greys in the abduction racket, and so on.
    - Aperocky 5y ago
      No, that's not what it is. Most successful migration in tech requires a time where both old and new system are running concurrently. In terms of brain, this treat consciousness as software and brain/etc as hardware. whether said software can be modified to run on other hardware, or other hardware can be modified to run said software, is where the key's at. The key to migration is to have a period when the same software is running on both platforms. As a single unit.
      - User23 5y ago
        I like that appeal to the Ship of Theseus. It's not compelling, but it is clever.
        ninju 5y ago
        For those that are not familiar with the the philosophical discussion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
teekert 5y ago
What's suicide if the pattern that defines you remains? Anyway if you like pondering in this direction, this book is highly recommended: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permutation_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permutation_City
snet0 5y ago
I can't remember who came up with this, but this realisation is made a lot more vivid if you imagine the "original" you being killed with an axe while your "teleported" you is happily unaware. I believe the videogame Soma has an analogous situation, although I haven't played it.
- teekert 5y ago
  I happens a lot in Altered Carbon as well.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
midasuni 5y ago
If you chopped your leg off, they perfectly reattached it, are you dead? How about heart? What if you removed part of your brain. What if you grew a replacement part instead of reattaching? When does Theseus become a new person? Alternatively can you prove you were alive yesterday? Or do you just have the memories, and others have memories of an indistinguishable copy? How much of your body existed 20 years ago? Are you the same person?
- butisaidsudo 5y ago
  This is a great article on this, with a bunch of thought experiments on what makes you, you: https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/12/what-makes-you-you.html https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/12/what-makes-you-you.html
  - scrumper 5y ago
    That was excellent but stopped tantalizingly short - he's on to something. He's uncomfortable about the concept of a "soul", but the idea of continuity is really interesting. It suggests that the boundary of a conscious entity is not purely physical, but must also encompass a temporal dimension. (This is a new thought for me, I'm excited by it.) It's a shame he felt icky about souls because you don't really need that baggage. I'm not smart enough to really think it through but at a glance it seems to resolve those various tests and scenarios. In the malfunctioning teleport example (where the cell destroyer fails to fire), _both_ London Tim and Boston Tim are equally alive because they share the past: the teleport has succeeded in bifurcating their consciousness. Same with the split-brain twins (though you'd expect the results to be diminished).
    - teekert 5y ago
      I also like the start but it stop way before it get really interesting. I found Permutation City (by Greg Egan) to a great deal deeper, plus it's a nice story. I mentioned this also somewhere else in this thread. Tbh when people start with the soul concept or even mention it as a possibility, I usually stop reading because you start with some un-provable hypothesis that only adds unnecessary complexity. I've yet to run into a thought experiment that arrives at the concept of a soul through structured arguments (and not say religious arguments).
mikewarot 5y ago
Or if they use a one minute time machine https://youtu.be/vBkBS4O3yvY https://youtu.be/vBkBS4O3yvY
createunderrate 5y ago
Maybe not in a quantum universe: > Similarly, cloning would violate the no-teleportation theorem, which says that it is impossible to convert a quantum state into a sequence of classical bits (even an infinite sequence of bits), copy those bits to some new location, and recreate a copy of the original quantum state in the new location. This should not be confused with entanglement-assisted teleportation, which does allow a quantum state to be destroyed in one location, and an exact copy to be recreated in another location. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-cloning_theorem#Consequences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-cloning_theorem#Consequence...

rnoorda 5y ago

For anyone interested in this conceit, I recommend an episode of The Outer Limits called "Think Like a Dinosaur" dealing with this idea and what happens when it goes wrong.

User23 5y ago

Part of why I don't see the appeal, even if it were possible, of uploading your "consciousness" whatever that is, to extend "life." It's not you, and you're still dead.

teekert 5y ago
The pattern that is "the other" you will argue otherwise.
- ASalazarMX 5y ago
  In fact, the other you would be very grateful that you (both) didn't succumb to narcissism, and instead copied your consciousness to a better body.
Aperocky 5y ago
Not if there's a transition, a migration if you will.
- User23 5y ago
  Digital metempsychosis is an interesting religious belief. From an anthropological perspective I find it fascinating how the same old ideas get reimagined as technology changes. Feels like how the Sidhe got replaced by the Greys in the abduction racket, and so on.
  - Aperocky 5y ago
    No, that's not what it is. Most successful migration in tech requires a time where both old and new system are running concurrently. In terms of brain, this treat consciousness as software and brain/etc as hardware. whether said software can be modified to run on other hardware, or other hardware can be modified to run said software, is where the key's at. The key to migration is to have a period when the same software is running on both platforms. As a single unit.
    - User23 5y ago
      I like that appeal to the Ship of Theseus. It's not compelling, but it is clever.
      - ninju 5y ago
        For those that are not familiar with the the philosophical discussion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

teekert 5y ago

What's suicide if the pattern that defines you remains? Anyway if you like pondering in this direction, this book is highly recommended: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permutation_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permutation_City

snet0 5y ago

I can't remember who came up with this, but this realisation is made a lot more vivid if you imagine the "original" you being killed with an axe while your "teleported" you is happily unaware. I believe the videogame Soma has an analogous situation, although I haven't played it.

teekert 5y ago
I happens a lot in Altered Carbon as well.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

midasuni 5y ago

If you chopped your leg off, they perfectly reattached it, are you dead? How about heart? What if you removed part of your brain. What if you grew a replacement part instead of reattaching? When does Theseus become a new person? Alternatively can you prove you were alive yesterday? Or do you just have the memories, and others have memories of an indistinguishable copy? How much of your body existed 20 years ago? Are you the same person?

butisaidsudo 5y ago
This is a great article on this, with a bunch of thought experiments on what makes you, you: https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/12/what-makes-you-you.html https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/12/what-makes-you-you.html
- scrumper 5y ago
  That was excellent but stopped tantalizingly short - he's on to something. He's uncomfortable about the concept of a "soul", but the idea of continuity is really interesting. It suggests that the boundary of a conscious entity is not purely physical, but must also encompass a temporal dimension. (This is a new thought for me, I'm excited by it.) It's a shame he felt icky about souls because you don't really need that baggage. I'm not smart enough to really think it through but at a glance it seems to resolve those various tests and scenarios. In the malfunctioning teleport example (where the cell destroyer fails to fire), _both_ London Tim and Boston Tim are equally alive because they share the past: the teleport has succeeded in bifurcating their consciousness. Same with the split-brain twins (though you'd expect the results to be diminished).
  - teekert 5y ago
    I also like the start but it stop way before it get really interesting. I found Permutation City (by Greg Egan) to a great deal deeper, plus it's a nice story. I mentioned this also somewhere else in this thread. Tbh when people start with the soul concept or even mention it as a possibility, I usually stop reading because you start with some un-provable hypothesis that only adds unnecessary complexity. I've yet to run into a thought experiment that arrives at the concept of a soul through structured arguments (and not say religious arguments).

mikewarot 5y ago

Or if they use a one minute time machine https://youtu.be/vBkBS4O3yvY https://youtu.be/vBkBS4O3yvY

createunderrate 5y ago

Maybe not in a quantum universe: > Similarly, cloning would violate the no-teleportation theorem, which says that it is impossible to convert a quantum state into a sequence of classical bits (even an infinite sequence of bits), copy those bits to some new location, and recreate a copy of the original quantum state in the new location. This should not be confused with entanglement-assisted teleportation, which does allow a quantum state to be destroyed in one location, and an exact copy to be recreated in another location. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-cloning_theorem#Consequences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-cloning_theorem#Consequence...