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I think I'm getting downvotes because people don't want this to be true. However, I'd like to hear an argument that makes my statements above not true. For exa

I think I'm getting downvotes because people don't want this to be true. However, I'd like to hear an argument that makes my statements above not true. For example, my parents are never going to self host their own photos unless they're confident that it is safe and reliable, and takes almost no effort on their part. They don't want that responsibility, and frankly, there's no need. OSS can be built around businesses that take responsibility and host for others. Part of why so many of these platforms fail to gain mainstream support, is that they're not built to support a solid business case, and instead somehow expect everyday people to learn far more than is realistic, just to replace a service that is free and easy. That doesn't have to be true. Wordpress, as mentioned above, is a very good example, as it provides both options. (Self hosting, vs. paying someone else to take that responsibility.)

sodimel 5y ago
We have an initiative in France where local non-profit orgs setup and maintain such OSS services (for free or for a small fee). It's called "chatons"[0] (kittens), and it's great :) [0]: https://www.chatons.org/ https://www.chatons.org/
- geofft 5y ago
  That's not self-hosting. That's getting services from a third-party organization that happens to be a non-profit. The only difference between that and GitHub is that GitHub is a for-profit company, which setup and maintain services for you (for free or a small fee). So if the actual complaint is "stop supporting for-profit companies," sure (but then we have to ask why - there are reasons to expect that a for-profit company is likely to be more stable long-term, more likely to be secure, etc.). If the complaint is "GitHub / Microsoft in particular is bad, and chatons in particular is good," sure (but then, what about for-profit competitors like GitLab?). But that's unrelated to the original complaint. As you say, chatons is maintaining OSS services for you to interact with.
EGreg 5y ago
I am pretty sure you get downvotes for the reason you stated. On HN it is a signal that what people disagree with what you’re saying — though I strongly feel it should’t be, even pg said it’s a valid reason. Anyway, I am for actually discussing substance so here it is: With Facebook, you only have one possible landlord - a monopoly. With Wordpress, you have a choice of many landlords who compete on price, location, and so forth, knowing that you can take your business elsewhere. In short it is like going from digital Feudalism to Capitalism. See this for much more info: https://qbix.com/blog/2021/01/15/open-source-communities/ https://qbix.com/blog/2021/01/15/open-source-communities/ That is why I started Qbix 10 years ago. But there is something even better than capitalism and privately owned hosting companies: autonomous, self-balancing networks where dumb pipes carry encrypted messages. Blockchains are just the beginning. That’s why I started Intercoin.org but some projects like MaidSAFE and Matrix.org are ahead of us in many respects (for storage).

sodimel 5y ago

We have an initiative in France where local non-profit orgs setup and maintain such OSS services (for free or for a small fee). It's called "chatons"[0] (kittens), and it's great :) [0]: https://www.chatons.org/ https://www.chatons.org/

geofft 5y ago
That's not self-hosting. That's getting services from a third-party organization that happens to be a non-profit. The only difference between that and GitHub is that GitHub is a for-profit company, which setup and maintain services for you (for free or a small fee). So if the actual complaint is "stop supporting for-profit companies," sure (but then we have to ask why - there are reasons to expect that a for-profit company is likely to be more stable long-term, more likely to be secure, etc.). If the complaint is "GitHub / Microsoft in particular is bad, and chatons in particular is good," sure (but then, what about for-profit competitors like GitLab?). But that's unrelated to the original complaint. As you say, chatons is maintaining OSS services for you to interact with.

EGreg 5y ago

I am pretty sure you get downvotes for the reason you stated. On HN it is a signal that what people disagree with what you’re saying — though I strongly feel it should’t be, even pg said it’s a valid reason. Anyway, I am for actually discussing substance so here it is: With Facebook, you only have one possible landlord - a monopoly. With Wordpress, you have a choice of many landlords who compete on price, location, and so forth, knowing that you can take your business elsewhere. In short it is like going from digital Feudalism to Capitalism. See this for much more info: https://qbix.com/blog/2021/01/15/open-source-communities/ https://qbix.com/blog/2021/01/15/open-source-communities/ That is why I started Qbix 10 years ago. But there is something even better than capitalism and privately owned hosting companies: autonomous, self-balancing networks where dumb pipes carry encrypted messages. Blockchains are just the beginning. That’s why I started Intercoin.org but some projects like MaidSAFE and Matrix.org are ahead of us in many respects (for storage).