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Makes sense. It's like a perfect metaphor for imbalances between individualism and collectivism. Seems like Sparta internalized personal valor so intensely tha

Makes sense. It's like a perfect metaphor for imbalances between individualism and collectivism. Seems like Sparta internalized personal valor so intensely that the only collective good they could possibly understand, was to project the whole country as an imagined heroic individual, and then try to individually triumph in the name of that country. Meanwhile, there's a lot of countries out there with more of an interest in community spirit and collective action. I daresay there's good metaphors for leaning too far in that way, as well, but Sparta did get wrecked in the end by the collectivists, who quite simply out-organized them and provided better support for their soldiers. If honor dictates you have to jump over the ten foot wall ALONE, you ain't doing it, and humbler people who build a human pyramid and lift up those not good at climbing… their whole army's gonna be on the other side of that wall, anytime they want.

dragontamer 5y ago
As far as I can tell, the modern world has left the realm of "individual vs collectivism" and is more about "individual vs collective vs collective-of-collectives". There's nothing wrong with the Marines being the modern Sparta, because the Marines are just one team in our team-of-teams of the military. Marines + Army work on the same projects together, so the Marines can be the "unsustainable elite fighting force", while the Army can hold the zones after the Marines have done initial combat. From this perspective, individuals glorifying combat works in the context of the Marines. If the Marines were alone, they'd fall just like Sparta did way back in the Greek days: but that's not really an issue today. The Army will inevitably help out whatever conflicts the Marines get into. So the "different cultures", the different stories that these communities have, work out in the context of the team-of-teams that make up today's military. -------- Society has advanced a lot in the last 3000 years. We know that we can build a community similar to the Spartans. The questions we have today aren't "good vs bad", but more about "where is the proper place this philosophy should be in our greater society?".
- Applejinx 5y ago
  Yes, absolutely. If we need Spartans, and we have that larger perspective, we can make not only the Spartans, but also the context for them to exist in. You've got it exactly right.

dragontamer 5y ago

As far as I can tell, the modern world has left the realm of "individual vs collectivism" and is more about "individual vs collective vs collective-of-collectives". There's nothing wrong with the Marines being the modern Sparta, because the Marines are just one team in our team-of-teams of the military. Marines + Army work on the same projects together, so the Marines can be the "unsustainable elite fighting force", while the Army can hold the zones after the Marines have done initial combat. From this perspective, individuals glorifying combat works in the context of the Marines. If the Marines were alone, they'd fall just like Sparta did way back in the Greek days: but that's not really an issue today. The Army will inevitably help out whatever conflicts the Marines get into. So the "different cultures", the different stories that these communities have, work out in the context of the team-of-teams that make up today's military. -------- Society has advanced a lot in the last 3000 years. We know that we can build a community similar to the Spartans. The questions we have today aren't "good vs bad", but more about "where is the proper place this philosophy should be in our greater society?".

Applejinx 5y ago
Yes, absolutely. If we need Spartans, and we have that larger perspective, we can make not only the Spartans, but also the context for them to exist in. You've got it exactly right.