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> And please don't say "that's different, it affects other people!" Preempting the flaw in your strawman doesn’t invalidate it. A woman choosing to abort a pre
by liamwire 5y ago
> And please don't say "that's different, it affects other people!"
Preempting the flaw in your strawman doesn’t invalidate it. A woman choosing to abort a pregnancy has no bearing on anyone but her. In contrast, the anti-vaccine crowd both directly, and indirectly, contribute to the propagation of disease.
Your right to bodily autonomy stops at society’s doorstep, which is broadly agreeing that the unvaccinated don’t get to participate in the non-essential aspects of society, otherwise furthering the risk to everyone else without reason.
- gorwell 5y ago"has no bearing on anyone but her." Isn't the baby also affected by that choice?
- dragonwriter 5y ago> Isn't the baby also affected by that choice? Legally, zygotes, embryos, and fetuses (like spermatazoa and ova, and unlike babies which are not involved in this) are not persons.
- AnimalMuppet 5y agoLegally (currently). But... A zygote, an embryo, and a fetus are genetically fully human, and are distinct individuals from the mother. So saying "has no bearing on anyone but [the mother]" is... legally correct, but morally much more grey. And saying "it only affects one person" is also pre-empting the objection to the strawman.
- dragonwriter 5y ago> A zygote, an embryo, and a fetus are genetically fully human, and are distinct individuals from the mother Define “genetically fully human” and “distinct individuals” and provide an argument as to why each is ethically relevant.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago"Genetically fully human": having 2x23 chromosomes with the full complement of DNA that normal human cells contain; that is, not haploid like spermatozoa or ova. "Distinct individual": Genetically different from the parent, and not just different with a transcription error. Why it's relevant: Because "it's her body" and "it affects nobody else" aren't relevant arguments when it's not just her body, when there's another individual there. Now we have to have a real moral/ethical discussion, and we can't short-circuit it with dismissive strawmen. But I'm fairly sure you knew all of that. I suspect that you just want to keep using the strawmen to avoid having the actual ethical/moral discussion.
- Chris2048 5y agoCan you clarify what you mean by: > like spermatazoa and ova, and unlike babies which are not involved in this Do mean some fetuses are people aka babies, or all fetuses are distinct from babies and hence not persons.
- Chris2048 5y agoSo what's the strawman? That many pro-choicers also hate vaxxers?