7 ms·

I think a big part of the anti-vax stuff is 1. "mRNA" is still new tech in the public eyes, so it'll take some time to familiarize people with it and not see i

I think a big part of the anti-vax stuff is 1. "mRNA" is still new tech in the public eyes, so it'll take some time to familiarize people with it and not see it as "scary new tech". 2. Covid is (fortunately) less deadly than initially feared, which lead to people not being very worried about it at a personal risk level. If mRNA therapy start rolling out for cancer, you bet people will take it.

Thorentis 5y ago
Yeah exactly. I think the risk/reward ratio for many people is still not skewed enough in vaccine's favor compared to COVID. If COVID had been as bad as originally feared, I don't think we'd see as much hesitancy. But if somebody told an anti-vax person "you'll be dead in 3 months if you don't take this mRNA treatment", they'll take it for sure.
- RavlaAlvar 5y ago
  Can you more deadly with the same infection rate? The original COVID-03 disappeared within half year.
- treme 5y ago
  maybe we need to live stream ICU's... hospitals world wide are running beyond capacity since covid.
  - rickspencer3 5y ago
    Right. I think the concerns actually played out exactly as feared. Hospitals filled up with people sick with Covid, health care system got overwhelmed, everyone is at heightened risk due to the difficulty in getting treated for anything. The point of getting vaccinated is not to protect yourself, as much as to protect your community. I view people who won't take the vaccine because they perceive their personal risk as low to be selfish. Additionally, anyone who won't get vaccinated because they don't want anyone else to tell them what to do is childish.
    - hanselot 5y ago
      Were hospitals just brimming with surge capacity prior to this? Are doctors working insane schedules a new thing? I distinctly remember this being a theme in every tv show I have ever seen regarding doctors. Somehow though, they have enough time to dance around and film tiktok videos.
    - brigandish 5y ago
      > The point of getting vaccinated is not to protect yourself, as much as to protect your community. The point is first and foremost, and by a long way, to protect yourself. Herd immunity is a by-product of mass immunisation programmes, not the main goal. > I view people who won't take the vaccine because they perceive their personal risk as low to be selfish If their personal risk is low (as opposed to perceived low), which it is for the vast majority, then they're not having a selfish effect on others as they won't be taking up medical resources they shouldn't. If there's any "selfish" people - according to this strange standard you've built - it's those with high risk due to comorbidities they could've done something about, like their weight, and I wouldn't for one second paint them as some kind of moral deviants, they're people who need help in the short term and long. > Additionally, anyone who won't get vaccinated because they don't want anyone else to tell them what to do is childish. To make your own decisions and take your own risks is the mark of an adult because adulthood is about taking responsibility on, not abrogating it. Whether they are good decisions is a different discussion.
      - jjuel 5y ago
        Honestly, if the decision to not get a vaccine because you are young and healthy only affected you then your argument would make sense. Why are there laws against drunk driving? It isn't to solely protect the driver from injuring themselves correct? Edit: BTW I do not support mandated COVID vaccination. I just wish more people would think of the societal good instead of "muh freedoms" when making choices. Especially when certain side effects of vaccines actually happen at a higher incidence rate from getting COVID then from the vaccine (I.E. myocarditis).
        5y ago
  - brigandish 5y ago
    That would be a good idea, it's hard to get a proper breakdown of the demographics involved because of the way it's reported. Why make people bury their head in stats when they can get an idea of their personal risk with a quick scan of a few ICUs?
  - psychometry 5y ago
    In a way, this happens every day when unvaccinated morons have to say goodbye to their families over Facetime.
  - yetihehe 5y ago
    Nah, conspiracy theorists will say that those are some hired figurants. I've already heard such accusations from one famous singer.
    - lez 5y ago
      Taking one person's opinion and projecting it to millions is not part of the scientific method. It is like being angry to one jew and killing 6 million (see Hitler's life).
      - yetihehe 5y ago
        Yes, but my post an example of possible arguments. Conspiracy theorists are not a part of scientific method too. They don't care about live-streaming and they will spread another nonsense. We should take care of underlying problem of anti-vaxxers (pro-pandemics) doing anti-health propaganda, but I don't know how.
gameswithgo 5y ago
Are you relatively young? Read up on Andrew Wakefield and how his fraud regarding autism shaped thinking on vaccines to this day.
- asdff 5y ago
  Right. The antivax movement doesn't care about scientific consensus or anything like that. GP is implying these are reasonable people who have used reason to support their views, in reality they are emotional people who will parrot whatever piece of misinformation supports their worldview. You can't fix that with rhyme or reason because they didn't use rhyme or reason to even get there. These are people who don't even give their children the polio vaccine that they themselves might have been innoculated with in school.
  - sam_goody 5y ago
    That's a pretty sweeping statement. I know several people who have been hospitalized immediately after getting the Pfizer shot. I know one woman, whose daughter is a nurse, who died immediately after getting the shot. This daughter told me that in the hospital she works, all doctors publicly recommend the shot, and most doctors are privately pro the shot, but by no means all. She said that the doctors discuss this among themselves professionally, and there are legit doubts and fears. Despite having waded through many technical articles and endless discussion threads on mRNA, autoimmune responses to mRNA, yadda yadda, I consider myself not knowledgeable enough to have a "legitimate" opinion. Even so, I would think anyone above 50 should get the shot, and anyone who is young and healthy should talk with their doctor. But plenty of responsible people are learned enough to be anti, and even more have seen the vaccine send themselves or their neighbors to the hospital. They are not "emotional people who will parrot whatever piece of misinformation supports their worldview"
    - asdff 5y ago
      Are you implying the pfizer vaccine has killed someone? Ridiculous to see this on HN.
mchusma 5y ago
I agree with you generally, but people aren't exactly taking the non-mRNA alternative instead. (Some are, bit not at scale).
- AndrewBissell 5y ago
  The non-mRNA alternatives are also pretty experimental, still take the new approach of having your own cells manufacture the protein for your immune system to train against, and have been subjected to numerous safety pauses. I'm staunchly opposed to taking either kind of vaccine but if I had a gun to my head (and hey, given the rate things are going maybe I soon will!) I would probably pick mRNA, and specifically Pfizer since its dose is less than half of Moderna's. Why don't we have an inactivated virus or subunit (i.e. Novavax) vaccine as an option?
  - psychometry 5y ago
    We don't need to make special vaccines for scientific illiterates like you.
  - tadfisher 5y ago
    Neither are experimental.
    - AndrewBissell 5y ago
      No, they are. It's been only 17 months at most since they were injected into any significant sample size of human beings.

Thorentis 5y ago

Yeah exactly. I think the risk/reward ratio for many people is still not skewed enough in vaccine's favor compared to COVID. If COVID had been as bad as originally feared, I don't think we'd see as much hesitancy. But if somebody told an anti-vax person "you'll be dead in 3 months if you don't take this mRNA treatment", they'll take it for sure.

RavlaAlvar 5y ago
Can you more deadly with the same infection rate? The original COVID-03 disappeared within half year.
treme 5y ago
maybe we need to live stream ICU's... hospitals world wide are running beyond capacity since covid.
- rickspencer3 5y ago
  Right. I think the concerns actually played out exactly as feared. Hospitals filled up with people sick with Covid, health care system got overwhelmed, everyone is at heightened risk due to the difficulty in getting treated for anything. The point of getting vaccinated is not to protect yourself, as much as to protect your community. I view people who won't take the vaccine because they perceive their personal risk as low to be selfish. Additionally, anyone who won't get vaccinated because they don't want anyone else to tell them what to do is childish.
  - hanselot 5y ago
    Were hospitals just brimming with surge capacity prior to this? Are doctors working insane schedules a new thing? I distinctly remember this being a theme in every tv show I have ever seen regarding doctors. Somehow though, they have enough time to dance around and film tiktok videos.
  - brigandish 5y ago
    > The point of getting vaccinated is not to protect yourself, as much as to protect your community. The point is first and foremost, and by a long way, to protect yourself. Herd immunity is a by-product of mass immunisation programmes, not the main goal. > I view people who won't take the vaccine because they perceive their personal risk as low to be selfish If their personal risk is low (as opposed to perceived low), which it is for the vast majority, then they're not having a selfish effect on others as they won't be taking up medical resources they shouldn't. If there's any "selfish" people - according to this strange standard you've built - it's those with high risk due to comorbidities they could've done something about, like their weight, and I wouldn't for one second paint them as some kind of moral deviants, they're people who need help in the short term and long. > Additionally, anyone who won't get vaccinated because they don't want anyone else to tell them what to do is childish. To make your own decisions and take your own risks is the mark of an adult because adulthood is about taking responsibility on, not abrogating it. Whether they are good decisions is a different discussion.
    - jjuel 5y ago
      Honestly, if the decision to not get a vaccine because you are young and healthy only affected you then your argument would make sense. Why are there laws against drunk driving? It isn't to solely protect the driver from injuring themselves correct? Edit: BTW I do not support mandated COVID vaccination. I just wish more people would think of the societal good instead of "muh freedoms" when making choices. Especially when certain side effects of vaccines actually happen at a higher incidence rate from getting COVID then from the vaccine (I.E. myocarditis).
      - 5y ago
- brigandish 5y ago
  That would be a good idea, it's hard to get a proper breakdown of the demographics involved because of the way it's reported. Why make people bury their head in stats when they can get an idea of their personal risk with a quick scan of a few ICUs?
- psychometry 5y ago
  In a way, this happens every day when unvaccinated morons have to say goodbye to their families over Facetime.
- yetihehe 5y ago
  Nah, conspiracy theorists will say that those are some hired figurants. I've already heard such accusations from one famous singer.
  - lez 5y ago
    Taking one person's opinion and projecting it to millions is not part of the scientific method. It is like being angry to one jew and killing 6 million (see Hitler's life).
    - yetihehe 5y ago
      Yes, but my post an example of possible arguments. Conspiracy theorists are not a part of scientific method too. They don't care about live-streaming and they will spread another nonsense. We should take care of underlying problem of anti-vaxxers (pro-pandemics) doing anti-health propaganda, but I don't know how.

gameswithgo 5y ago

Are you relatively young? Read up on Andrew Wakefield and how his fraud regarding autism shaped thinking on vaccines to this day.

asdff 5y ago
Right. The antivax movement doesn't care about scientific consensus or anything like that. GP is implying these are reasonable people who have used reason to support their views, in reality they are emotional people who will parrot whatever piece of misinformation supports their worldview. You can't fix that with rhyme or reason because they didn't use rhyme or reason to even get there. These are people who don't even give their children the polio vaccine that they themselves might have been innoculated with in school.
- sam_goody 5y ago
  That's a pretty sweeping statement. I know several people who have been hospitalized immediately after getting the Pfizer shot. I know one woman, whose daughter is a nurse, who died immediately after getting the shot. This daughter told me that in the hospital she works, all doctors publicly recommend the shot, and most doctors are privately pro the shot, but by no means all. She said that the doctors discuss this among themselves professionally, and there are legit doubts and fears. Despite having waded through many technical articles and endless discussion threads on mRNA, autoimmune responses to mRNA, yadda yadda, I consider myself not knowledgeable enough to have a "legitimate" opinion. Even so, I would think anyone above 50 should get the shot, and anyone who is young and healthy should talk with their doctor. But plenty of responsible people are learned enough to be anti, and even more have seen the vaccine send themselves or their neighbors to the hospital. They are not "emotional people who will parrot whatever piece of misinformation supports their worldview"
  - asdff 5y ago
    Are you implying the pfizer vaccine has killed someone? Ridiculous to see this on HN.

mchusma 5y ago

I agree with you generally, but people aren't exactly taking the non-mRNA alternative instead. (Some are, bit not at scale).

AndrewBissell 5y ago
The non-mRNA alternatives are also pretty experimental, still take the new approach of having your own cells manufacture the protein for your immune system to train against, and have been subjected to numerous safety pauses. I'm staunchly opposed to taking either kind of vaccine but if I had a gun to my head (and hey, given the rate things are going maybe I soon will!) I would probably pick mRNA, and specifically Pfizer since its dose is less than half of Moderna's. Why don't we have an inactivated virus or subunit (i.e. Novavax) vaccine as an option?
- psychometry 5y ago
  We don't need to make special vaccines for scientific illiterates like you.
- tadfisher 5y ago
  Neither are experimental.
  - AndrewBissell 5y ago
    No, they are. It's been only 17 months at most since they were injected into any significant sample size of human beings.