4 ms·

Even the positive article already says: "may be linked to the psychedelic’s ability to reopen a “critical period” in the brain for social reward learning." That

by tgv 5y ago

Even the positive article already says: "may be linked to the psychedelic’s ability to reopen a “critical period” in the brain for social reward learning." That's a lot more weasel words than the headline. That's without adding "You have to have used MDMA in a therapeutic setting," which is to say it hasn't been found to work in a natural setting, only in the experiment. No link to any article, so grains of salt included.

bildung 5y ago
> which is to say it hasn't been found to work in a natural setting This says that the drug creates the ability to relearn something, but the learning process itself is of course mediated by the setting provided - learning is always about interaction with the environment. This has nothing to do with weasel words, it simply illustrates the mode of action.
tpm 5y ago
> which is to say it hasn't been found to work in a natural setting Or rather it can't really be studied in natural (uncontrolled) setting, given that it's a heavily controlled substance. You just can't give it to people and let them run loose. You also can't just collect their opinions on experience with otherwise acquired MDMA, because it's cut, altered, often other substances or a mix of substances. Also as a scientist you do not want to be seen as supporting self-medication with with illegal and dangerous (MDMA has low therapeutic index) substances. > may be linked to the psychedelic’s ability to reopen a “critical period” in the brain for social reward learning. That's a lot more weasel words than the headline. I see it more as a careful scientist wording, given that it's really hard to study psychedelic drugs.
- tgv 5y ago
  Social reward learning starts very early in life. It's quite a claim that MDMA can overcome patterns ingrained during many years. It would have a major effect. But then why wouldn't it work in another setting? It's not as if time is terribly critical: "the MDMA dose did indeed reopen the critical period for social reward learning in the adult mice, beginning around 6 to 48 hours after the dose. The reopening of the critical period lasted at least two weeks, up to around 4 weeks before returning to baseline." The mechanism proposed in the article, basically serotonin, would also affect more than just social reward learning, so how come there's no sign of that? I don't know the target audience of analyticalcannabis.com, but I would need to see much more evidence before writing such a positively worded article.
  - mistermann 5y ago
    > But then why wouldn't it work in another setting? Is this referring to something explicit? I'd think it's certainly possible it could work in many, but only certain settings have been or can be studied, for specific definitions of "study".
  - tpm 5y ago
    Well MDMA and other psychedelics do have major effects. I think the ultimate source of the article's claims is this study, but there might be others I am not aware of - the research of psychedelics has exploded lately. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30944474/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30944474/

by tgv 5y ago

bildung 5y ago

> which is to say it hasn't been found to work in a natural setting This says that the drug creates the ability to relearn something, but the learning process itself is of course mediated by the setting provided - learning is always about interaction with the environment. This has nothing to do with weasel words, it simply illustrates the mode of action.

tpm 5y ago

> which is to say it hasn't been found to work in a natural setting Or rather it can't really be studied in natural (uncontrolled) setting, given that it's a heavily controlled substance. You just can't give it to people and let them run loose. You also can't just collect their opinions on experience with otherwise acquired MDMA, because it's cut, altered, often other substances or a mix of substances. Also as a scientist you do not want to be seen as supporting self-medication with with illegal and dangerous (MDMA has low therapeutic index) substances. > may be linked to the psychedelic’s ability to reopen a “critical period” in the brain for social reward learning. That's a lot more weasel words than the headline. I see it more as a careful scientist wording, given that it's really hard to study psychedelic drugs.

tgv 5y ago
Social reward learning starts very early in life. It's quite a claim that MDMA can overcome patterns ingrained during many years. It would have a major effect. But then why wouldn't it work in another setting? It's not as if time is terribly critical: "the MDMA dose did indeed reopen the critical period for social reward learning in the adult mice, beginning around 6 to 48 hours after the dose. The reopening of the critical period lasted at least two weeks, up to around 4 weeks before returning to baseline." The mechanism proposed in the article, basically serotonin, would also affect more than just social reward learning, so how come there's no sign of that? I don't know the target audience of analyticalcannabis.com, but I would need to see much more evidence before writing such a positively worded article.
- mistermann 5y ago
  > But then why wouldn't it work in another setting? Is this referring to something explicit? I'd think it's certainly possible it could work in many, but only certain settings have been or can be studied, for specific definitions of "study".
- tpm 5y ago
  Well MDMA and other psychedelics do have major effects. I think the ultimate source of the article's claims is this study, but there might be others I am not aware of - the research of psychedelics has exploded lately. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30944474/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30944474/