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Christians are more generous than the general population, so your tripe makes no sense. https://www.hoover.org/research/religious-faith-and-charitable-giving h

Christians are more generous than the general population, so your tripe makes no sense. https://www.hoover.org/research/religious-faith-and-charitable-giving https://www.hoover.org/research/religious-faith-and-charitab... > The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). https://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/philanthropy-magazine/less-god-less-giving https://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/philanthropy-magazine... > In study after study, religious practice is the behavioral variable with the strongest and most consistent association with generous giving. And people with religious motivations don’t give just to faith-based causes—they are also much likelier to give to secular causes than the nonreligious. https://givingusa.org/just-released-giving-usa-special-report-on-giving-to-religion/ https://givingusa.org/just-released-giving-usa-special-repor... > People who are religiously affiliated are more likely to make a charitable donation of any kind, whether to a religious congregation or to another type of charitable organization. > Religiously affiliated households give as much or more to other types of charities as non-religiously affiliated households do.

eurasiantiger 5y ago
I’m not referring to giving or philanthropy, I’m referring to the ”suffering erases sins” mindset perpetuated by Christians. It is Jesus’ final message. Sin does not exist, they made it up to make themselves and others suffer. Have you considered that some people are so keen on giving away their fortunes because it makes them suffer more, and thus makes them think they are now cleaner in God’s eyes?
- alentist 5y ago
  Have you considered basing your characterization of 2.5 billion people on reality, rather than your own twisted mental gymnastics and fabrication of their beliefs?
  - eurasiantiger 5y ago
    I am basing my characterization on hundreds of associates, acquaintances and encounters, as well as second-hand anecdotes, from a time span of three decades.
    - selimthegrim 5y ago
      None other than the founder of EWTN, as well as Mother Teresa agreed with him.
      - eurasiantiger 5y ago
        They made her a SAINT!
      - alentist 5y ago
        So 2 people out of billions? And can you prove your claim for both? See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28475407 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28475407.
    - alentist 5y ago
      Based on the content your earlier comment, it's abundantly clear that you're lying. See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28475407 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28475407.
- finder83 5y ago
  Are you saying that "suffering erases sin" is Jesus' final message? The Christian message is that there's nothing we can do in our own power to erase sin, including suffering, hence the need for Jesus in the first place. Death in Christianity is the final release from sin and its consequences, e.g. suffering, and into eternal joy...and being released of the weight of the consequences of sin eternally is supposed to bring joy and love in this life. So I have no idea what you're talking about.
  - eurasiantiger 5y ago
    Explain Mother Theresa, as well as the flagellants and other penitents.
    - alentist 5y ago
      What about them?
      - eurasiantiger 5y ago
        You know perfectly well what about them.
        alentist 5y ago
        No, I don't. Why don't you answer the question?
    - finder83 5y ago
      Well, I'm a protestant so there might be a different belief system in the Catholic church. "Grace by faith alone", which is the basis of what I commented above is a reformation doctrine and is mostly a protestant thing (some Catholics I have met believe it, but officially not the Roman Catholic Church), and penitence is entirely a Catholic thing, and was a primary cause of the reformation. There are actually a LOT of different belief systems within Christianity and the related cults surrounding it, so you can't entirely sum them up by saying "Christianity". How I would respond to anyone stating that suffering is required to pay for sins is that it is un-Biblical and they've warped the message of Jesus, and are adding to/complicating the gospel. This is possible in the Catholic church because edicts of the Pope and Councils have had equal (or at least near equal, I'm not a Catholic historian or theologian) weight with scripture, which of course have no weight at all to Protestantism as the Pope is just another person. Mother Theresa and penitents have such a drastically different belief system, that while I would not go so far as to call them non-Christian as I think only God alone determines that, I would say that their teachings are not the same religion as mine. Saints again are a purely Catholic thing, so to me and other protestants, Mother Theresa is just another person, and "Saint" is a worthless designation from the Catholic Church. In addition, individual adherents of what is classified as "Christian" can teach and believe (or fail in their belief) of the core doctrines and cease to become what I would consider Christian, despite doing things in the name of Christ. The church during the time of Paul's letters and Acts were dealing with the same thing, people using the name of Christ who were not what Luke or Paul considered Christians. It sounds like a no-true-Scottsman argument, and perhaps it is, but the argument that I'm making is that you are lumping billions of people together, when #1 they don't lump themselves together (Catholics have considered protestants and the reformers heretics as well), and #2 they believe and practice drastically different things. You will likely hear Protestants hedge when asked if Roman Catholics are Christian, and the reason is because on an individual basis, there are Christians within the Roman Catholic church. But what they teach is not what we consider the Christian gospel.

eurasiantiger 5y ago

I’m not referring to giving or philanthropy, I’m referring to the ”suffering erases sins” mindset perpetuated by Christians. It is Jesus’ final message. Sin does not exist, they made it up to make themselves and others suffer. Have you considered that some people are so keen on giving away their fortunes because it makes them suffer more, and thus makes them think they are now cleaner in God’s eyes?

alentist 5y ago
Have you considered basing your characterization of 2.5 billion people on reality, rather than your own twisted mental gymnastics and fabrication of their beliefs?
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  I am basing my characterization on hundreds of associates, acquaintances and encounters, as well as second-hand anecdotes, from a time span of three decades.
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    None other than the founder of EWTN, as well as Mother Teresa agreed with him.
    - eurasiantiger 5y ago
      They made her a SAINT!
    - alentist 5y ago
      So 2 people out of billions? And can you prove your claim for both? See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28475407 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28475407.
  - alentist 5y ago
    Based on the content your earlier comment, it's abundantly clear that you're lying. See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28475407 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28475407.
finder83 5y ago
Are you saying that "suffering erases sin" is Jesus' final message? The Christian message is that there's nothing we can do in our own power to erase sin, including suffering, hence the need for Jesus in the first place. Death in Christianity is the final release from sin and its consequences, e.g. suffering, and into eternal joy...and being released of the weight of the consequences of sin eternally is supposed to bring joy and love in this life. So I have no idea what you're talking about.
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  Explain Mother Theresa, as well as the flagellants and other penitents.
  - alentist 5y ago
    What about them?
    - eurasiantiger 5y ago
      You know perfectly well what about them.
      - alentist 5y ago
        No, I don't. Why don't you answer the question?
  - finder83 5y ago
    Well, I'm a protestant so there might be a different belief system in the Catholic church. "Grace by faith alone", which is the basis of what I commented above is a reformation doctrine and is mostly a protestant thing (some Catholics I have met believe it, but officially not the Roman Catholic Church), and penitence is entirely a Catholic thing, and was a primary cause of the reformation. There are actually a LOT of different belief systems within Christianity and the related cults surrounding it, so you can't entirely sum them up by saying "Christianity". How I would respond to anyone stating that suffering is required to pay for sins is that it is un-Biblical and they've warped the message of Jesus, and are adding to/complicating the gospel. This is possible in the Catholic church because edicts of the Pope and Councils have had equal (or at least near equal, I'm not a Catholic historian or theologian) weight with scripture, which of course have no weight at all to Protestantism as the Pope is just another person. Mother Theresa and penitents have such a drastically different belief system, that while I would not go so far as to call them non-Christian as I think only God alone determines that, I would say that their teachings are not the same religion as mine. Saints again are a purely Catholic thing, so to me and other protestants, Mother Theresa is just another person, and "Saint" is a worthless designation from the Catholic Church. In addition, individual adherents of what is classified as "Christian" can teach and believe (or fail in their belief) of the core doctrines and cease to become what I would consider Christian, despite doing things in the name of Christ. The church during the time of Paul's letters and Acts were dealing with the same thing, people using the name of Christ who were not what Luke or Paul considered Christians. It sounds like a no-true-Scottsman argument, and perhaps it is, but the argument that I'm making is that you are lumping billions of people together, when #1 they don't lump themselves together (Catholics have considered protestants and the reformers heretics as well), and #2 they believe and practice drastically different things. You will likely hear Protestants hedge when asked if Roman Catholics are Christian, and the reason is because on an individual basis, there are Christians within the Roman Catholic church. But what they teach is not what we consider the Christian gospel.