5 ms·

My wife has a misdemeanor from when she was young and can’t enter Canada for the same reason. As a Brit, I think it’s pretty petty as she was fine to move to t

My wife has a misdemeanor from when she was young and can’t enter Canada for the same reason. As a Brit, I think it’s pretty petty as she was fine to move to the UK and work there. We now live in the US where she works for a large employer and has passed numerous background checks. Sometimes I think Canada is more interested in portraying itself as a progressive beacon to the world than actually being one.

anticodon 5y ago
Canada provided (and still provides) shelter for nazi war criminals (e.g. Helmut Oberlander).
- ivalm 5y ago
  To be fair, reading wikipedia it really does seem that they are trying to deport him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Oberlander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Oberlander
  - anticodon 5y ago
    Yes, after 26 years of attempts to postpone this.
    - MattGaiser 5y ago
      It seems like the government tried, but was limited by process. Revoking citizenship is a touchy and complicated subject up here.
    - q1w2 5y ago
      Still - one data point does not prove a trend.
  - petre 5y ago
    Except they're not trying hard enough.
- refurb 5y ago
  Wow, that's a pretty lazy and misleading description of the situation. He was stripped of citizenship and it was instated 3 times by the Canadian court system. Why? "2013 Supreme Court ruling that guilt by association is not sufficient grounds to be considered a war criminal." What you called "sheltering nazi war criminals" I would call due process. You know, not actually punishing people unless they've been fairly judged as guilty according to the law.
  - anticodon 5y ago
    He's not the only one. I read about him recently that's why I was able to remember his name. There were/are others like him. Even more, in Canada there're memorials dedicated to nazi war criminals, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Shukhevych https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Shukhevych
    - mafuy 5y ago
      I don't know much about this topic, but: Please do not use that guy as an example in your earlier post if he is not a good example. It made it sound to me as if your goal is to convince, not to lead others to truth. Instead, just point to your strongest point (the memorials, I believe). Regarding the memorials, I could not find this in the link. Could you point me at it?
      - anticodon 5y ago
        https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2018/08/13/shukhevych-monument-canada-oun-upa/ https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2018/08/13/shukhevych-monument-cana...
    - q1w2 5y ago
      The article you link does not mention any memorials in Canada for this person - nor did they ever even live in Canada. He was shot by the Soviet security agents in 1950 in Ukraine while fighting for Ukrainian independence. ...and then his entire family was imprisoned to set an example to others. There is also no evidence that this person committed any war crime at all. The notes in the link document that his military division committed war crimes. Guilt by association? Collective punishment? Really?
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  They also paid 8 million dollars and apologized to a known terrorist who brutally murdered an American soldier in Afghanistan. [0] I wish I was making this up. [0] https://www.foxnews.com/world/omar-khadr-ex-gitmo-detainee-who-killed-us-soldier-receives-millions-from-canada https://www.foxnews.com/world/omar-khadr-ex-gitmo-detainee-w...
  - sofixa 5y ago
    This bullshit again... He was illegally detained without due process, tortured and confessed to killing an enemy soldier (murder implies civilian circumstances, it was a fight with US soldiers where he was injured and fought back). He recants his confession, and even if it's true, not getting tortured is a human right. (Not getting your country invaded also, but that's a whole different matter). And he was 15 at the time. A kid getting tortured for fighting in a war that was brought to him ( he was taken to Afghanistan by his father, and the US army came to fight them)? What the fuck are you on to consider that appropriate? I'm glad he sued and won compensation.
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      > murder implies civilian circumstances We can play on words, that won't bring back his victims. > Not getting your country invaded also, but that's a whole different matter He was rather quick to claim Canada was "his" country despite having brutally murdered an allied soldier. Also, he was fighting "his" country pretty hard until it became convenient not to.
      - sofixa 5y ago
        > We can play on words, that won't bring back his victims I really disagree with calling a soldier on a mission, an agressive overseas mission, getting killed in action "a victim". A casualty, yes. If anyone's a victim, it's the innocent civilians getting blown up by both sides in a conflict they didn't ask for, not the combattants on either side. > He was rather quick to claim Canada was "his" country despite having brutally murdered an allied soldier. Also, he was fighting "his" country pretty hard until it became convenient not to. He says he did so to be extradited there so that he actually has some human rights and dignity restored, because, remember, he was tortured for actions he did when he was 15. He's still technically a war criminal if he did indeed kill the US soldier (not being a regular soldier in uniform), but the US had no jurisdiction over him, illegally detained and tortured him for an alleged crime he committed while being a minor. Anyone involved with this on the US side should rot for life in The Hague ( of course that would never happen).
papaf 5y ago
Sometimes I think Canada is more interested in portraying itself as a progressive beacon to the world than actually being one. Its attitude to seals is not very progressive: https://www.humanesociety.org/resources/about-canadian-seal-hunt https://www.humanesociety.org/resources/about-canadian-seal-... Or the environment: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/alberta-canadas-tar-sands-is-growing-but-indigenous-people-fight-back https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/alber...
- q1w2 5y ago
  These two examples are effectively cherry-picking two data points to make an extremely BROAD argument that "Canada is not Progressive".
- flycaliguy 5y ago
  Regarding seals, you are stepping into a debate which includes aboriginal rights. There is nothing clear cut about that one.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    Now that you bring it up, the residential schools were pretty progressive too: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/24/world/canada/indigenous-children-graves-saskatchewan-canada.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/24/world/canada/indigenous-c... Last one closed in 1996.

anticodon 5y ago

Canada provided (and still provides) shelter for nazi war criminals (e.g. Helmut Oberlander).

ivalm 5y ago
To be fair, reading wikipedia it really does seem that they are trying to deport him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Oberlander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Oberlander
- anticodon 5y ago
  Yes, after 26 years of attempts to postpone this.
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    It seems like the government tried, but was limited by process. Revoking citizenship is a touchy and complicated subject up here.
  - q1w2 5y ago
    Still - one data point does not prove a trend.
- petre 5y ago
  Except they're not trying hard enough.
refurb 5y ago
Wow, that's a pretty lazy and misleading description of the situation. He was stripped of citizenship and it was instated 3 times by the Canadian court system. Why? "2013 Supreme Court ruling that guilt by association is not sufficient grounds to be considered a war criminal." What you called "sheltering nazi war criminals" I would call due process. You know, not actually punishing people unless they've been fairly judged as guilty according to the law.
- anticodon 5y ago
  He's not the only one. I read about him recently that's why I was able to remember his name. There were/are others like him. Even more, in Canada there're memorials dedicated to nazi war criminals, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Shukhevych https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Shukhevych
  - mafuy 5y ago
    I don't know much about this topic, but: Please do not use that guy as an example in your earlier post if he is not a good example. It made it sound to me as if your goal is to convince, not to lead others to truth. Instead, just point to your strongest point (the memorials, I believe). Regarding the memorials, I could not find this in the link. Could you point me at it?
    - anticodon 5y ago
      https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2018/08/13/shukhevych-monument-canada-oun-upa/ https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2018/08/13/shukhevych-monument-cana...
  - q1w2 5y ago
    The article you link does not mention any memorials in Canada for this person - nor did they ever even live in Canada. He was shot by the Soviet security agents in 1950 in Ukraine while fighting for Ukrainian independence. ...and then his entire family was imprisoned to set an example to others. There is also no evidence that this person committed any war crime at all. The notes in the link document that his military division committed war crimes. Guilt by association? Collective punishment? Really?
908B64B197 5y ago
They also paid 8 million dollars and apologized to a known terrorist who brutally murdered an American soldier in Afghanistan. [0] I wish I was making this up. [0] https://www.foxnews.com/world/omar-khadr-ex-gitmo-detainee-who-killed-us-soldier-receives-millions-from-canada https://www.foxnews.com/world/omar-khadr-ex-gitmo-detainee-w...
- sofixa 5y ago
  This bullshit again... He was illegally detained without due process, tortured and confessed to killing an enemy soldier (murder implies civilian circumstances, it was a fight with US soldiers where he was injured and fought back). He recants his confession, and even if it's true, not getting tortured is a human right. (Not getting your country invaded also, but that's a whole different matter). And he was 15 at the time. A kid getting tortured for fighting in a war that was brought to him ( he was taken to Afghanistan by his father, and the US army came to fight them)? What the fuck are you on to consider that appropriate? I'm glad he sued and won compensation.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    > murder implies civilian circumstances We can play on words, that won't bring back his victims. > Not getting your country invaded also, but that's a whole different matter He was rather quick to claim Canada was "his" country despite having brutally murdered an allied soldier. Also, he was fighting "his" country pretty hard until it became convenient not to.
    - sofixa 5y ago
      > We can play on words, that won't bring back his victims I really disagree with calling a soldier on a mission, an agressive overseas mission, getting killed in action "a victim". A casualty, yes. If anyone's a victim, it's the innocent civilians getting blown up by both sides in a conflict they didn't ask for, not the combattants on either side. > He was rather quick to claim Canada was "his" country despite having brutally murdered an allied soldier. Also, he was fighting "his" country pretty hard until it became convenient not to. He says he did so to be extradited there so that he actually has some human rights and dignity restored, because, remember, he was tortured for actions he did when he was 15. He's still technically a war criminal if he did indeed kill the US soldier (not being a regular soldier in uniform), but the US had no jurisdiction over him, illegally detained and tortured him for an alleged crime he committed while being a minor. Anyone involved with this on the US side should rot for life in The Hague ( of course that would never happen).

papaf 5y ago

Sometimes I think Canada is more interested in portraying itself as a progressive beacon to the world than actually being one. Its attitude to seals is not very progressive: https://www.humanesociety.org/resources/about-canadian-seal-hunt https://www.humanesociety.org/resources/about-canadian-seal-... Or the environment: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/alberta-canadas-tar-sands-is-growing-but-indigenous-people-fight-back https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/alber...

q1w2 5y ago
These two examples are effectively cherry-picking two data points to make an extremely BROAD argument that "Canada is not Progressive".
flycaliguy 5y ago
Regarding seals, you are stepping into a debate which includes aboriginal rights. There is nothing clear cut about that one.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  Now that you bring it up, the residential schools were pretty progressive too: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/24/world/canada/indigenous-children-graves-saskatchewan-canada.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/24/world/canada/indigenous-c... Last one closed in 1996.