5 ms·

Manning is not an outlier. The ACLU, and other organizations ostensibly committed to human freedom, have largely gone the same way.

denkmoon 5y ago
How so?
- chitowneats 5y ago
  I'm prepared for the deluge of down votes. https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/civil-liberties-and-vaccine-mandates-heres-our-take/ https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/civil-liberties-an... There is no world in which a mandate for all citizens 12 and older to have a particular medical treatment, otherwise be barred from public life, is about "civil liberties". It's such a contortion.
- brandmeyer 5y ago
  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27414920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27414920 There are numerous articles that discuss this article in turn. The short version: Many current members of the ACLU are advocating to take up progressively-aligned cases specifically instead of civil liberties causes generally.
  - q1w2 5y ago
    It's pretty iconic of the modern far-left movement. They really do earn the term "regressive".
- yunohn 5y ago
  In response to the flagged comment below yours: > a particular medical treatment What a /contortion/ to avoid saying “vaccine”. In the context of this thread and your comment about medical treatments - immigrants from developing countries to the USA and various other Western countries, need to prove that they’ve gotten a litany of vaccinations. This COVID mandate is actually quite mild compared to this historical policy.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    The real contortion is describing mRNA gene therapy, that is non-sterilizing, and requires frequent boosters, as a "vaccine". Can you think of any other vaccine you have taken that works like this? Of course, this is novel tech. So perhaps we should expect a few differences. But typically HN is more appropriately skeptical of such innovations and would not cheer on government mandates that require them for 12 year olds immediately after FDA emergency authorization ends.
    - skuhn 5y ago
      You are spreading misinformation. mRNA vaccines are not gene therapy. They do not alter DNA. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-mrna-gene/fact-check-mrna-vaccines-are-distinct-from-gene-therapy-which-alters-recipients-genes-idUSL1N2PH16N https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-mrna-gene/fa... https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210719/covid-19-vaccines-not-gene-therapy https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210719/covid-19-vaccines-n... https://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vaccines-arent-gene-therapies/ https://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vacci...
    - danShumway 5y ago
      The characterization of mRNA as "gene therapy" is really a master-stroke of propaganda from the anti-vax movement considering that mRNA vaccines never enter the cell nucleus and that they replace the traditional vaccine technique of literally inserting viruses into your body -- you know, the things that specialize in attacking and rewiring your cells. mRNA technology isn't new, but even if it was, it's still wild to claim that a delivery mechanism that's less invasive than traditional vaccine techniques is somehow magically more dangerous. Also, tons of existing vaccines require boosters, and not all vaccines produce sterilizing immunity -- the COVID vaccines are not unique in that regard.
      - chitowneats 5y ago
_3u10 5y ago
Yup, dig up their pandemic preparedness docs from back before they became pro-life rather than pro-choice.

denkmoon 5y ago

How so?

chitowneats 5y ago
I'm prepared for the deluge of down votes. https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/civil-liberties-and-vaccine-mandates-heres-our-take/ https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/civil-liberties-an... There is no world in which a mandate for all citizens 12 and older to have a particular medical treatment, otherwise be barred from public life, is about "civil liberties". It's such a contortion.
brandmeyer 5y ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27414920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27414920 There are numerous articles that discuss this article in turn. The short version: Many current members of the ACLU are advocating to take up progressively-aligned cases specifically instead of civil liberties causes generally.
- q1w2 5y ago
  It's pretty iconic of the modern far-left movement. They really do earn the term "regressive".
yunohn 5y ago
In response to the flagged comment below yours: > a particular medical treatment What a /contortion/ to avoid saying “vaccine”. In the context of this thread and your comment about medical treatments - immigrants from developing countries to the USA and various other Western countries, need to prove that they’ve gotten a litany of vaccinations. This COVID mandate is actually quite mild compared to this historical policy.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- chitowneats 5y ago
  The real contortion is describing mRNA gene therapy, that is non-sterilizing, and requires frequent boosters, as a "vaccine". Can you think of any other vaccine you have taken that works like this? Of course, this is novel tech. So perhaps we should expect a few differences. But typically HN is more appropriately skeptical of such innovations and would not cheer on government mandates that require them for 12 year olds immediately after FDA emergency authorization ends.
  - skuhn 5y ago
    You are spreading misinformation. mRNA vaccines are not gene therapy. They do not alter DNA. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-mrna-gene/fact-check-mrna-vaccines-are-distinct-from-gene-therapy-which-alters-recipients-genes-idUSL1N2PH16N https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-mrna-gene/fa... https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210719/covid-19-vaccines-not-gene-therapy https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210719/covid-19-vaccines-n... https://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vaccines-arent-gene-therapies/ https://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vacci...
  - danShumway 5y ago
    The characterization of mRNA as "gene therapy" is really a master-stroke of propaganda from the anti-vax movement considering that mRNA vaccines never enter the cell nucleus and that they replace the traditional vaccine technique of literally inserting viruses into your body -- you know, the things that specialize in attacking and rewiring your cells. mRNA technology isn't new, but even if it was, it's still wild to claim that a delivery mechanism that's less invasive than traditional vaccine techniques is somehow magically more dangerous. Also, tons of existing vaccines require boosters, and not all vaccines produce sterilizing immunity -- the COVID vaccines are not unique in that regard.
    - chitowneats 5y ago

_3u10 5y ago

Yup, dig up their pandemic preparedness docs from back before they became pro-life rather than pro-choice.