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At one point, Chelsea Manning was the core of a progressive movement, with aims for positive change and progress. Now, even as an activist myself, it's hard to

At one point, Chelsea Manning was the core of a progressive movement, with aims for positive change and progress. Now, even as an activist myself, it's hard to see her as anything other than a politically driven rogue who's clearly lost their bearings of right and wrong in relation to their original activism.

chitowneats 5y ago
Manning is not an outlier. The ACLU, and other organizations ostensibly committed to human freedom, have largely gone the same way.
- denkmoon 5y ago
  How so?
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    I'm prepared for the deluge of down votes. https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/civil-liberties-and-vaccine-mandates-heres-our-take/ https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/civil-liberties-an... There is no world in which a mandate for all citizens 12 and older to have a particular medical treatment, otherwise be barred from public life, is about "civil liberties". It's such a contortion.
  - brandmeyer 5y ago
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27414920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27414920 There are numerous articles that discuss this article in turn. The short version: Many current members of the ACLU are advocating to take up progressively-aligned cases specifically instead of civil liberties causes generally.
    - q1w2 5y ago
      It's pretty iconic of the modern far-left movement. They really do earn the term "regressive".
  - yunohn 5y ago
    In response to the flagged comment below yours: > a particular medical treatment What a /contortion/ to avoid saying “vaccine”. In the context of this thread and your comment about medical treatments - immigrants from developing countries to the USA and various other Western countries, need to prove that they’ve gotten a litany of vaccinations. This COVID mandate is actually quite mild compared to this historical policy.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - chitowneats 5y ago
      The real contortion is describing mRNA gene therapy, that is non-sterilizing, and requires frequent boosters, as a "vaccine". Can you think of any other vaccine you have taken that works like this? Of course, this is novel tech. So perhaps we should expect a few differences. But typically HN is more appropriately skeptical of such innovations and would not cheer on government mandates that require them for 12 year olds immediately after FDA emergency authorization ends.
      - skuhn 5y ago
        You are spreading misinformation. mRNA vaccines are not gene therapy. They do not alter DNA. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-mrna-gene/fact-check-mrna-vaccines-are-distinct-from-gene-therapy-which-alters-recipients-genes-idUSL1N2PH16N https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-mrna-gene/fa... https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210719/covid-19-vaccines-not-gene-therapy https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210719/covid-19-vaccines-n... https://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vaccines-arent-gene-therapies/ https://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vacci...
      - danShumway 5y ago
        The characterization of mRNA as "gene therapy" is really a master-stroke of propaganda from the anti-vax movement considering that mRNA vaccines never enter the cell nucleus and that they replace the traditional vaccine technique of literally inserting viruses into your body -- you know, the things that specialize in attacking and rewiring your cells. mRNA technology isn't new, but even if it was, it's still wild to claim that a delivery mechanism that's less invasive than traditional vaccine techniques is somehow magically more dangerous. Also, tons of existing vaccines require boosters, and not all vaccines produce sterilizing immunity -- the COVID vaccines are not unique in that regard.
- _3u10 5y ago
  Yup, dig up their pandemic preparedness docs from back before they became pro-life rather than pro-choice.
ipaddr 5y ago
Banning entry for a whistle blowing crime when the country where the crime happened wrote off the sentence is more important to me than her movement between progressive hero to outsider. Calling out her crimes and placing them on the same level of rape, murder speaks to a disinformation campaign that gets unleashed but those in power. I have no clue what her message is but why is it _so dangerous to those in power that they would try to shut her down?
- chitowneats 5y ago
  Despite my comment below critical of Manning's contemporary politics, I agree there is no reason they should be barred from entry to Canada.
- 8note 5y ago
  From Canada's perspective, it pisses off our auperpower neighbor. Doing that doesn't go well for canada
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    If that superpower didn't want Manning in Canada presumably they would have left them in prison.
- _3u10 5y ago
  Commutation is not a pardon. Canada lines up US charges with Canadian ones, we like the US, regard disclosing classified info as a serious crime that bars one from entry. It’s not a disinformation campaign it’s the law, you and I may not like it but it’s been this way for a long time. They aren’t singling out Manning.
- gruez 5y ago
  >Calling out her crimes and placing them on the same level of rape, murder speaks to a disinformation campaign that gets unleashed but those in power. What makes you think she was compared to murderers and rapists? Comments elsewhere in this thread says that people with DWIs get stopped at the border as well.
coldtea 5y ago
Really? What exactly changed? Besides the left being more and more a substitute for GOP-style policies...
redis_mlc 5y ago
> progressive movement, with aims for positive change and progress. The word progressive is code for Marxist. Marxism is not about "positive change and progress" - it's about naked power grabs and violence that have resulted in the deaths of around 100 million people in the past century. Ironically it's the activists that are lined up against the wall first, since they know what the real agenda is. (A current example is the downstream BLM organizations asking where the money is after the parent BLM organization started handing out real estate to the board members.)

chitowneats 5y ago

Manning is not an outlier. The ACLU, and other organizations ostensibly committed to human freedom, have largely gone the same way.

denkmoon 5y ago
How so?
- chitowneats 5y ago
  I'm prepared for the deluge of down votes. https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/civil-liberties-and-vaccine-mandates-heres-our-take/ https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/civil-liberties-an... There is no world in which a mandate for all citizens 12 and older to have a particular medical treatment, otherwise be barred from public life, is about "civil liberties". It's such a contortion.
- brandmeyer 5y ago
  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27414920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27414920 There are numerous articles that discuss this article in turn. The short version: Many current members of the ACLU are advocating to take up progressively-aligned cases specifically instead of civil liberties causes generally.
  - q1w2 5y ago
    It's pretty iconic of the modern far-left movement. They really do earn the term "regressive".
- yunohn 5y ago
  In response to the flagged comment below yours: > a particular medical treatment What a /contortion/ to avoid saying “vaccine”. In the context of this thread and your comment about medical treatments - immigrants from developing countries to the USA and various other Western countries, need to prove that they’ve gotten a litany of vaccinations. This COVID mandate is actually quite mild compared to this historical policy.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    The real contortion is describing mRNA gene therapy, that is non-sterilizing, and requires frequent boosters, as a "vaccine". Can you think of any other vaccine you have taken that works like this? Of course, this is novel tech. So perhaps we should expect a few differences. But typically HN is more appropriately skeptical of such innovations and would not cheer on government mandates that require them for 12 year olds immediately after FDA emergency authorization ends.
    - skuhn 5y ago
      You are spreading misinformation. mRNA vaccines are not gene therapy. They do not alter DNA. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-mrna-gene/fact-check-mrna-vaccines-are-distinct-from-gene-therapy-which-alters-recipients-genes-idUSL1N2PH16N https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-mrna-gene/fa... https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210719/covid-19-vaccines-not-gene-therapy https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210719/covid-19-vaccines-n... https://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vaccines-arent-gene-therapies/ https://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vacci...
    - danShumway 5y ago
      The characterization of mRNA as "gene therapy" is really a master-stroke of propaganda from the anti-vax movement considering that mRNA vaccines never enter the cell nucleus and that they replace the traditional vaccine technique of literally inserting viruses into your body -- you know, the things that specialize in attacking and rewiring your cells. mRNA technology isn't new, but even if it was, it's still wild to claim that a delivery mechanism that's less invasive than traditional vaccine techniques is somehow magically more dangerous. Also, tons of existing vaccines require boosters, and not all vaccines produce sterilizing immunity -- the COVID vaccines are not unique in that regard.
_3u10 5y ago
Yup, dig up their pandemic preparedness docs from back before they became pro-life rather than pro-choice.

ipaddr 5y ago

Banning entry for a whistle blowing crime when the country where the crime happened wrote off the sentence is more important to me than her movement between progressive hero to outsider. Calling out her crimes and placing them on the same level of rape, murder speaks to a disinformation campaign that gets unleashed but those in power. I have no clue what her message is but why is it _so dangerous to those in power that they would try to shut her down?

chitowneats 5y ago
Despite my comment below critical of Manning's contemporary politics, I agree there is no reason they should be barred from entry to Canada.
8note 5y ago
From Canada's perspective, it pisses off our auperpower neighbor. Doing that doesn't go well for canada
- chitowneats 5y ago
  If that superpower didn't want Manning in Canada presumably they would have left them in prison.
_3u10 5y ago
Commutation is not a pardon. Canada lines up US charges with Canadian ones, we like the US, regard disclosing classified info as a serious crime that bars one from entry. It’s not a disinformation campaign it’s the law, you and I may not like it but it’s been this way for a long time. They aren’t singling out Manning.
gruez 5y ago
>Calling out her crimes and placing them on the same level of rape, murder speaks to a disinformation campaign that gets unleashed but those in power. What makes you think she was compared to murderers and rapists? Comments elsewhere in this thread says that people with DWIs get stopped at the border as well.

coldtea 5y ago

Really? What exactly changed? Besides the left being more and more a substitute for GOP-style policies...

redis_mlc 5y ago

> progressive movement, with aims for positive change and progress. The word progressive is code for Marxist. Marxism is not about "positive change and progress" - it's about naked power grabs and violence that have resulted in the deaths of around 100 million people in the past century. Ironically it's the activists that are lined up against the wall first, since they know what the real agenda is. (A current example is the downstream BLM organizations asking where the money is after the parent BLM organization started handing out real estate to the board members.)