5 ms·

And a lot better societal outcomes. Unwanted babies suck and end up having bad lives, negatively affecting their parents’ lives as well.

dimitrios1 5y ago
Too bad we can't ask unwanted babies if they would rather have been born into a bad life. This isn't directed at you, but I have had countless conversations about this very topic. The detriments are greatly overstated. I've found usually people are talking of these things outside looking in in an ideological vacuum, and not an experiential one. Let's take societal outcomes for african americans, as an example. What people don't realize is, when people speak of abortions in a vaccuum (and lets be frank -- it's usually white liberals who champion it the hardest), the elephant in the room is with african american women carry out the disproportionate volume of abortions, and the the overwhelming majority of Planned Parenthood locations being located in poor and black neighborhoods. There is a large argument now that is catching on in many african american communities that maybe if we had the estimated 11 million more black babies born in this country, black representation would be much better off in all matters of the socioeconomic and political spheres, resulting in better lives overall for the general population. In 2015, in association with National Black Pro-Life Coalition, Protecting Black Life, and National Black Pro-Life Union met with CURE to deliver a congressional report detailing all of these facts, and making the strong case that the economic and societal impact of all the abortions in the black community is far greater. I encourage everyone to read it: https://www.congress.gov/115/meeting/house/106562/witnesses/HHRG-115-JU10-Wstate-ParkerS-20171101-SD001.pdf https://www.congress.gov/115/meeting/house/106562/witnesses/...
- coliveira 5y ago
  If society wants more babies, the path is easy: provide financial help for couples and single mothers. The way it currently is, abortion is very attractive.
  - lostcolony 5y ago
    Yep. Carlin had this right; it's not being pro-life, it's being pro-birth. From birth until they turn 18 and can join the military, fuck 'em.
    - coliveira 5y ago
      Exactly. People seem to forget why birthrates were so high in the past. It is not just lack of abortion (which happened), but the fact that more children would provide additional help in the daily farm work. In other words, it was very cheap ho have children and the financial benefit existed. In a post-industrial society, these incentives are reversed. It is very expensive to have children, and there are no financial incentives. That's why we have the declining birth rates everywhere we have an economically developed society.
  - draugadrotten 5y ago
    Financial help is not all it takes to stop abortions. There are welfare states such as scandinavian ones where the financial help for having children and/or being a single mother is very generous. A single mother with 6 children can receive financial aid to the equivalent of a senior software engineer salary without having to work at all. Source: https://www.expressen.se/gt/gt-granskar/shukri-hade-fatt-lika--mycket-pengar-med--bidrag-jobbar-anda/ https://www.expressen.se/gt/gt-granskar/shukri-hade-fatt-lik... Even with these levels of financial support, abortions are common - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Sweden#Trends https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Sweden#Trends
    - Nitrolo 5y ago
      I'd just like to point out that raising 6 kids is very much hard work, even if you're a bad parent I find it hard to describe it as no work at all.
    - coliveira 5y ago
      Your data shows that the trend of abortion in Sweden is stable since the 70s. So, no, there is no correlation between abortion and a decrease in birth rates.
- kelnos 5y ago
  So basically your solution to racism is "force black women to have more babies"? That's... pretty disgusting if so.

dimitrios1 5y ago

Too bad we can't ask unwanted babies if they would rather have been born into a bad life. This isn't directed at you, but I have had countless conversations about this very topic. The detriments are greatly overstated. I've found usually people are talking of these things outside looking in in an ideological vacuum, and not an experiential one. Let's take societal outcomes for african americans, as an example. What people don't realize is, when people speak of abortions in a vaccuum (and lets be frank -- it's usually white liberals who champion it the hardest), the elephant in the room is with african american women carry out the disproportionate volume of abortions, and the the overwhelming majority of Planned Parenthood locations being located in poor and black neighborhoods. There is a large argument now that is catching on in many african american communities that maybe if we had the estimated 11 million more black babies born in this country, black representation would be much better off in all matters of the socioeconomic and political spheres, resulting in better lives overall for the general population. In 2015, in association with National Black Pro-Life Coalition, Protecting Black Life, and National Black Pro-Life Union met with CURE to deliver a congressional report detailing all of these facts, and making the strong case that the economic and societal impact of all the abortions in the black community is far greater. I encourage everyone to read it: https://www.congress.gov/115/meeting/house/106562/witnesses/HHRG-115-JU10-Wstate-ParkerS-20171101-SD001.pdf https://www.congress.gov/115/meeting/house/106562/witnesses/...

coliveira 5y ago
If society wants more babies, the path is easy: provide financial help for couples and single mothers. The way it currently is, abortion is very attractive.
- lostcolony 5y ago
  Yep. Carlin had this right; it's not being pro-life, it's being pro-birth. From birth until they turn 18 and can join the military, fuck 'em.
  - coliveira 5y ago
    Exactly. People seem to forget why birthrates were so high in the past. It is not just lack of abortion (which happened), but the fact that more children would provide additional help in the daily farm work. In other words, it was very cheap ho have children and the financial benefit existed. In a post-industrial society, these incentives are reversed. It is very expensive to have children, and there are no financial incentives. That's why we have the declining birth rates everywhere we have an economically developed society.
- draugadrotten 5y ago
  Financial help is not all it takes to stop abortions. There are welfare states such as scandinavian ones where the financial help for having children and/or being a single mother is very generous. A single mother with 6 children can receive financial aid to the equivalent of a senior software engineer salary without having to work at all. Source: https://www.expressen.se/gt/gt-granskar/shukri-hade-fatt-lika--mycket-pengar-med--bidrag-jobbar-anda/ https://www.expressen.se/gt/gt-granskar/shukri-hade-fatt-lik... Even with these levels of financial support, abortions are common - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Sweden#Trends https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Sweden#Trends
  - Nitrolo 5y ago
    I'd just like to point out that raising 6 kids is very much hard work, even if you're a bad parent I find it hard to describe it as no work at all.
  - coliveira 5y ago
    Your data shows that the trend of abortion in Sweden is stable since the 70s. So, no, there is no correlation between abortion and a decrease in birth rates.
kelnos 5y ago
So basically your solution to racism is "force black women to have more babies"? That's... pretty disgusting if so.