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Yeah, I really wish manufacturers would knock it off with the fragrances. I hate how smelly everything is, and I think some of it gives me headaches. Laundry

Yeah, I really wish manufacturers would knock it off with the fragrances. I hate how smelly everything is, and I think some of it gives me headaches. Laundry detergent is the worst; it contaminates everything with cheap perfume. I use non-fragranced stuff whenever I can. > with chlorine, you are ignoring the production process. I think you're confusing the production of hypochlorite, which is among the cleanest and most benign of all industrial processes, with that of chlorinated materials like PVC, which is fed with and leaves behind a lot of super nasty shit. Look up the Hooker process, which is how all hypochlorite is currently made. The only byproduct is sodium chloride (common salt), which is also the degradation endpoint of hypochlorite in the environment. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how clean and sustainable this particular corner of industry is. Did you know that chlorine bleach (such as Clorox) has a shelf life for this reason? It's because hypochlorite is unstable, and eventually that bottle of Clorox will become a bottle of plain salt water. > with the others your argument seems to be, "it is status quo, so it is ok." Not at all. What I'm saying is that dishwasher detergent is one of the cleanest, most harmless (to us and the environment) cleaning products we use. It's actually kind of a miraculous substance; it allows a simple machine to perform the hardest household cleaning job reliably and quickly using very little water or energy. It manages to this with no surfactants (such as phosphates, which actually are environmentally damaging) and no volatile grease cutters. The grease is removed only with alkaline minerals, and protein deposits are removed enzymatically. By drumming up a bunch of implausible and in some cases completely fictitious hazards, the EWG is doing a disservice to one of the most environmentally responsible cleaning products in use. For some reason the zinc thing especially pisses me off. That's so stupid. Pretending that zinc, a mineral that is ubiquitous in food and is essential to human health, is somehow a hazard in dishwasher detergent which is rinsed off anyway... this is basically a lie, and that alone should make you very skeptical of anything else they say. Anyways, again, I appreciate the fact that you care about this stuff. I imagine you and I would mostly agree about environmental topics in particular.

forgotmypw17 5y ago
I choose to take to the overly cautious spectrum, because this is my body and the body of people close to me at stake, and I'd rather avoid unnecessary damage to them. You seem to take to the other end of the spectrum, the optimistic, hopeful, and apologetic side... Very well, it probably is comforting, and support you in finding your own path through this mess.
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  I wouldn't call myself hopeful or optimistic in this regard. Quite the opposite, actually, I downright despair over the ways we've poisoned ourselves and our environment-- for example, with lead, mercury, asbestos, air pollution, and now PFAS chemicals. However I'm also realistic about evaluating risk, and I have just enough familiarity with the chemistry of everyday life to recognize where there is none. > I choose to take to the overly cautious spectrum, because this is my body and the body of people close to me at stake, and I'd rather avoid unnecessary damage to them. That being the case, I assume you'll be taking some other sensible precautions, which will prevent exposure to substances that are at least as risky as dishwasher detergent: - Cut coffee out of your diet (due to acrylamide, a suspected carcinogen) - Cut all meat out of your diet (especially red meat) - Avoid citrus fruits, mints, and other herbs that contain limonene, which some researcher said causes cancer in rats. - Avoid bread, beer, dried fruits and nuts (acrylamide) - To avoid nitrates, you'll want to avoid high-nitrate foods such as arugula, beets, cabbage, celery, cilantro, endive, fennel, kale, lettuce, parsley, rhubarb, spinach, and many others. Actually, it's probably best to avoid vegetables altogether in the Spring and Summer when nitrate levels tend to be highest. - Avoid cell phones and wifi - And for god's sake, don't smoke anything! This is just the stuff I can think of right now. I'm sure there's a lot more.
  - forgotmypw17 5y ago
    The way I look at it, chemicals which my ancestors have been exposed to for hundreds and thousands of years come with a lower risk than those which have just been synthesized and were not naturally occurring before the last century. And yes, based on watching closely for inflammation effects, I have mostly cut coffee, red meat, processed meat, bread, beer, dried fruit, synthetic nitrates, non-organic produce, cell phones (but not wifi). I do smoke weed occasionally, but I think I take in less smoke than someone living with a campfire, something my ancestors have dealt with on many occasions. I don't think fruits and veggies which have been consumed for centuries and millennia are that dangerous. Generally speaking, I think of bodies as "production environments" with "known good inputs" which have worked in the past, and everything else is basically "testing in production".

forgotmypw17 5y ago

I choose to take to the overly cautious spectrum, because this is my body and the body of people close to me at stake, and I'd rather avoid unnecessary damage to them. You seem to take to the other end of the spectrum, the optimistic, hopeful, and apologetic side... Very well, it probably is comforting, and support you in finding your own path through this mess.

nate_meurer 5y ago
I wouldn't call myself hopeful or optimistic in this regard. Quite the opposite, actually, I downright despair over the ways we've poisoned ourselves and our environment-- for example, with lead, mercury, asbestos, air pollution, and now PFAS chemicals. However I'm also realistic about evaluating risk, and I have just enough familiarity with the chemistry of everyday life to recognize where there is none. > I choose to take to the overly cautious spectrum, because this is my body and the body of people close to me at stake, and I'd rather avoid unnecessary damage to them. That being the case, I assume you'll be taking some other sensible precautions, which will prevent exposure to substances that are at least as risky as dishwasher detergent: - Cut coffee out of your diet (due to acrylamide, a suspected carcinogen) - Cut all meat out of your diet (especially red meat) - Avoid citrus fruits, mints, and other herbs that contain limonene, which some researcher said causes cancer in rats. - Avoid bread, beer, dried fruits and nuts (acrylamide) - To avoid nitrates, you'll want to avoid high-nitrate foods such as arugula, beets, cabbage, celery, cilantro, endive, fennel, kale, lettuce, parsley, rhubarb, spinach, and many others. Actually, it's probably best to avoid vegetables altogether in the Spring and Summer when nitrate levels tend to be highest. - Avoid cell phones and wifi - And for god's sake, don't smoke anything! This is just the stuff I can think of right now. I'm sure there's a lot more.
- forgotmypw17 5y ago
  The way I look at it, chemicals which my ancestors have been exposed to for hundreds and thousands of years come with a lower risk than those which have just been synthesized and were not naturally occurring before the last century. And yes, based on watching closely for inflammation effects, I have mostly cut coffee, red meat, processed meat, bread, beer, dried fruit, synthetic nitrates, non-organic produce, cell phones (but not wifi). I do smoke weed occasionally, but I think I take in less smoke than someone living with a campfire, something my ancestors have dealt with on many occasions. I don't think fruits and veggies which have been consumed for centuries and millennia are that dangerous. Generally speaking, I think of bodies as "production environments" with "known good inputs" which have worked in the past, and everything else is basically "testing in production".