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Unfortunately for Docker, I don't trust or want to use Swarm because of their attempts to monetize and because of the frequency that they push breaking bugs or

by ljm 5y ago

Unfortunately for Docker, I don't trust or want to use Swarm because of their attempts to monetize and because of the frequency that they push breaking bugs or breaking changes into production releases. To the extent that they made downgrading a paid option, not upgrading. And I'm in the process of switching everything I've got over to Podman now. Swarm might be great, but the ecosystem around k8s is massive. So my two choices are: ignore Docker entirely and do it like I've always done (Heroku, chef, puppet, etc. just managing my servers myself), or buy into containers and go with K8S. To that extent, I only ever deal with K8S at work, and for my personal stuff I don't go near Docker at all. Why would I when I can get an 8GB/4CPU VPS for $9/mo and serve everything I care about from that? I've got fail2ban, systemd, caddy, and plenty of resources. I can host mysql on the same machine because there isn't a god-given law about hosting your DB on a separate box. Same with anything else. No need for Docker or Swarm or K8s.

da39a3ee 5y ago
> because of their attempts to monetize Did you read the article? It was about a company struggling to monetize an open source project. It hardly seems time for teenagerish M$-Windows asides on how you don't like people monetizing the software they are giving you for free.
- p1necone 5y ago
  There's an implicit "in a way that was hostile to their customers/the docker community" in there.
  - da39a3ee 5y ago
    What was implicit was the view that any "attempt to monetize" is hostile. Which, as I said, is something one associates with Linux hobbyists from the early 2000s.
BackBlast 5y ago
Who do you use for your VPS provider? Those specs for that price are much better than what I typically see price wise on DigitalOcean, Linode, Vultr, AWS, etc. I ignore docker myself. It's been too unstable for me and historically just costs me time, I'd rather just use systemd on a VPS. Occasionally when someone else has setup a complex system in docker I want to play with it has been convenient. Still, I avoid installing it at all.
- beingflo 5y ago
  You can get somewhat close to that on Hetzner. Very stable in my experience, too.
yawaramin 5y ago
> To the extent that they made downgrading a paid option, not upgrading. Except that they didn't. With even a little bit of research you can easily find out that they made skipping updates a paid feature, and then even removed that after negative feedback! People were even talking about downgrading below the version that introduced the 'paid update skipping', so any way you look at it, your comment doesn't make any sense.
- sethherr 5y ago
  It’s not a good look and that matters. If I’m going to rely on something for production, and that thing ships breaking changes and considers weird, terrible monetization strategies, I go elsewhere.
  - yawaramin 5y ago
    Spewing FUD is not a good look either. Introducing paid features is not a 'breaking change'–your pipelines and production code continued to work throughout all this–and charging large commercial enterprises for premium features is not a 'weird, terrible monetization strategy'.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - SergeAx 5y ago
    You don't use Docker Desktop in production, right? Right?
ignoramous 5y ago
> No need for Docker or Swarm or K8s. This is exactly why I think new-cloud companies like fly.io, stackpath, deno.land, vercel.app are the future. No one wants to deal with muck if they can avoid it. Cloud exposed data center primitives. Then, cloud-native laid bare the at-scale primitives. Imho, I think the industry is ripe for both NoCloud and NewCloud.

by ljm 5y ago

da39a3ee 5y ago

> because of their attempts to monetize Did you read the article? It was about a company struggling to monetize an open source project. It hardly seems time for teenagerish M$-Windows asides on how you don't like people monetizing the software they are giving you for free.

p1necone 5y ago
There's an implicit "in a way that was hostile to their customers/the docker community" in there.
- da39a3ee 5y ago
  What was implicit was the view that any "attempt to monetize" is hostile. Which, as I said, is something one associates with Linux hobbyists from the early 2000s.

BackBlast 5y ago

Who do you use for your VPS provider? Those specs for that price are much better than what I typically see price wise on DigitalOcean, Linode, Vultr, AWS, etc. I ignore docker myself. It's been too unstable for me and historically just costs me time, I'd rather just use systemd on a VPS. Occasionally when someone else has setup a complex system in docker I want to play with it has been convenient. Still, I avoid installing it at all.

beingflo 5y ago
You can get somewhat close to that on Hetzner. Very stable in my experience, too.

yawaramin 5y ago

> To the extent that they made downgrading a paid option, not upgrading. Except that they didn't. With even a little bit of research you can easily find out that they made skipping updates a paid feature, and then even removed that after negative feedback! People were even talking about downgrading below the version that introduced the 'paid update skipping', so any way you look at it, your comment doesn't make any sense.

sethherr 5y ago
It’s not a good look and that matters. If I’m going to rely on something for production, and that thing ships breaking changes and considers weird, terrible monetization strategies, I go elsewhere.
- yawaramin 5y ago
  Spewing FUD is not a good look either. Introducing paid features is not a 'breaking change'–your pipelines and production code continued to work throughout all this–and charging large commercial enterprises for premium features is not a 'weird, terrible monetization strategy'.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- SergeAx 5y ago
  You don't use Docker Desktop in production, right? Right?

ignoramous 5y ago

> No need for Docker or Swarm or K8s. This is exactly why I think new-cloud companies like fly.io, stackpath, deno.land, vercel.app are the future. No one wants to deal with muck if they can avoid it. Cloud exposed data center primitives. Then, cloud-native laid bare the at-scale primitives. Imho, I think the industry is ripe for both NoCloud and NewCloud.