24 ms·

I don't think this is a valid argument against this being a real breakthrough. The first major production lithium ion batteries were for Sony camcorders. Not a

I don't think this is a valid argument against this being a real breakthrough. The first major production lithium ion batteries were for Sony camcorders. Not all that different from wearables, and obviously lithium ion batteries were a pretty major breakthrough.

rasz 5y ago
Camcorders sipped amps, wristband seeps microamps up to single digit milliamps.
- reportingsjr 5y ago
  Anything that has radios in it, such as devices with bluetooth, are going to see peak currents in the amps. I've designed and worked on a number of devices that are very similar to these wrist bands. The typical modes are uA draw for long sleep periods, 10s of mA while collecting data/doing whatever for milliseconds, and 500mA to 2 or 3A for a few hundred ms every once in a while to transmit data. So low ESR, high power capable batteries are very desirable for this sort of device. Especially when you consider that 2A draw is likely around 20C out of a wearable battery!
  - rasz 5y ago
    Please point me to one of devices you worked on that is wearable and draws 3A when transmitting. I would also love to see a BLE device with power consumption in the amps, especially considering TX power limits in the standard. Its normal for Class 3 BLE radio to consume same current when transmitting as when receiving (in <20mA range).
Jetrel 5y ago
Indeed. All breakthrough techs initially suck. They're a shitty, borderline-useless, but FUNCTIONAL breakthrough. And that's really the thing - they might be a joke, but if they do work, and if they're just barely usable for some niche product (specifically in some new space that other solutions were not really viable for), then the giant deathball of applied corporate R&D starts rolling on them. SSDs are probably the absolute bellweather of this, since their early forms held mere kilobytes. They were uniquely useful because they were non-volatile, and immune(-ish) to the kinds of shaking disruptions that befoul magnetic media (usually via head crashes). The thing about these things is the corporate R&D deathball. Once it gets rolling, they can breed a mouse to be the size of an elephant. The more profound/insight-driven challenge lies in getting that initial mouse, and getting that initial foothold of a market opportunity. -- Batteries of course were another great example. The reason we have viable electric cars, instead of trashy ones with a 20-mile range, is entirely thanks to the consumer electronics industry (broadly including power tools, etc). They needed batteries and paid for the R&D. Fast forward 25 years, and "the best we can do" jumped from a 20-mile range, to a 250-mile range.
- rasz 5y ago
  >SSDs are probably the absolute bellweather of this, since their early forms held mere kilobytes You are three orders of magnitude wrong, first commercial SSDs were in the ballpark of HDD capacity and perfectly sufficient for OS install (~1990). >instead of trashy ones with a 20-mile range again even EV1 had over 100 miles range, first electric cars in 1910 had 30–40 miles range.

rasz 5y ago

Camcorders sipped amps, wristband seeps microamps up to single digit milliamps.

reportingsjr 5y ago
Anything that has radios in it, such as devices with bluetooth, are going to see peak currents in the amps. I've designed and worked on a number of devices that are very similar to these wrist bands. The typical modes are uA draw for long sleep periods, 10s of mA while collecting data/doing whatever for milliseconds, and 500mA to 2 or 3A for a few hundred ms every once in a while to transmit data. So low ESR, high power capable batteries are very desirable for this sort of device. Especially when you consider that 2A draw is likely around 20C out of a wearable battery!
- rasz 5y ago
  Please point me to one of devices you worked on that is wearable and draws 3A when transmitting. I would also love to see a BLE device with power consumption in the amps, especially considering TX power limits in the standard. Its normal for Class 3 BLE radio to consume same current when transmitting as when receiving (in <20mA range).

Jetrel 5y ago

Indeed. All breakthrough techs initially suck. They're a shitty, borderline-useless, but FUNCTIONAL breakthrough. And that's really the thing - they might be a joke, but if they do work, and if they're just barely usable for some niche product (specifically in some new space that other solutions were not really viable for), then the giant deathball of applied corporate R&D starts rolling on them. SSDs are probably the absolute bellweather of this, since their early forms held mere kilobytes. They were uniquely useful because they were non-volatile, and immune(-ish) to the kinds of shaking disruptions that befoul magnetic media (usually via head crashes). The thing about these things is the corporate R&D deathball. Once it gets rolling, they can breed a mouse to be the size of an elephant. The more profound/insight-driven challenge lies in getting that initial mouse, and getting that initial foothold of a market opportunity. -- Batteries of course were another great example. The reason we have viable electric cars, instead of trashy ones with a 20-mile range, is entirely thanks to the consumer electronics industry (broadly including power tools, etc). They needed batteries and paid for the R&D. Fast forward 25 years, and "the best we can do" jumped from a 20-mile range, to a 250-mile range.

rasz 5y ago
>SSDs are probably the absolute bellweather of this, since their early forms held mere kilobytes You are three orders of magnitude wrong, first commercial SSDs were in the ballpark of HDD capacity and perfectly sufficient for OS install (~1990). >instead of trashy ones with a 20-mile range again even EV1 had over 100 miles range, first electric cars in 1910 had 30–40 miles range.