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We live in a world where people get shot for less. You better believe I'm complying with whatever they ask.

thephyber 5y ago
You can get shot for/while/after complying with police lawful orders. That’s not a good excuse to pretend like an inquiry is the same as a legal order or forced coercion. Better to know your legal rights so you can know what your options are. Better to know and exercise your rights when the risk trade off works for your risk tolerance. In the end, most officers will give more scrutiny if the civilian they are dealing with “fails the attitude test”. Remain calm and when you disagree / reject a request, do it politely and that will increase the odds that the officer won’t spend extra time to find a reason to cite/arrest you.
- yardie 5y ago
  So what happens if a "civilian" fails the attitude test? Also, quit with the civilian crap. Cops are civilians too. If they want to play special forces join the military.
  - thephyber 5y ago
    It becomes a gamble whether the officer wants to spend more time looking for a reason to detain you. In my experience, police make lots of quick judgements about whether you are “a criminal” based on how compliant you are with their instructions and how normal your behavior is. If you are a nail sticking out, expect most officers to at least consider putting more effort into looking into what they can cite/arrest you for. The joke is that given enough time and incentive, any officer can cite any person for a vehicle infraction. Take that, but assume there are tons of other laws (not just vehicle codes) that a sufficiently motivated officer can use. I suspect it actually takes a lot to make an officer turn just a Terry Stop into an arrest. Maybe a verbal or gesture threat against the officer, maybe an admission of a crime, maybe behaviors that a jury would agree describe a person under the influence. I don’t think just saying “no” to a question on the first ask will cause any arrests. LEOs are very experienced at using small psychological tricks/nudges/anchoring to get what they want with compliant detainees.
    - yardie 5y ago
      > I suspect it actually takes a lot to make an officer turn just a Terry Stop into an arrest. If I've learned anything over the last few years cops hate being recorded. It doesn't take much to set them off. And they'll use the fact that you are recording them, you don't stop, and therefore resisting their command. In my college years I would drive from SE Florida to the mid-Atlantic and there were lots of small town ticket revenue towns along the way. I've never been arrested but have been detained, illegally, many times for petty, imaginary reasons.

You can get shot for/while/after complying with police lawful orders. That’s not a good excuse to pretend like an inquiry is the same as a legal order or forced coercion. Better to know your legal rights so you can know what your options are. Better to know and exercise your rights when the risk trade off works for your risk tolerance. In the end, most officers will give more scrutiny if the civilian they are dealing with “fails the attitude test”. Remain calm and when you disagree / reject a request, do it politely and that will increase the odds that the officer won’t spend extra time to find a reason to cite/arrest you.

yardie 5y ago
So what happens if a "civilian" fails the attitude test? Also, quit with the civilian crap. Cops are civilians too. If they want to play special forces join the military.
- thephyber 5y ago
  It becomes a gamble whether the officer wants to spend more time looking for a reason to detain you. In my experience, police make lots of quick judgements about whether you are “a criminal” based on how compliant you are with their instructions and how normal your behavior is. If you are a nail sticking out, expect most officers to at least consider putting more effort into looking into what they can cite/arrest you for. The joke is that given enough time and incentive, any officer can cite any person for a vehicle infraction. Take that, but assume there are tons of other laws (not just vehicle codes) that a sufficiently motivated officer can use. I suspect it actually takes a lot to make an officer turn just a Terry Stop into an arrest. Maybe a verbal or gesture threat against the officer, maybe an admission of a crime, maybe behaviors that a jury would agree describe a person under the influence. I don’t think just saying “no” to a question on the first ask will cause any arrests. LEOs are very experienced at using small psychological tricks/nudges/anchoring to get what they want with compliant detainees.
  - yardie 5y ago
    > I suspect it actually takes a lot to make an officer turn just a Terry Stop into an arrest. If I've learned anything over the last few years cops hate being recorded. It doesn't take much to set them off. And they'll use the fact that you are recording them, you don't stop, and therefore resisting their command. In my college years I would drive from SE Florida to the mid-Atlantic and there were lots of small town ticket revenue towns along the way. I've never been arrested but have been detained, illegally, many times for petty, imaginary reasons.