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I was obviously talking about democracies and not authoritarian regimes. I can understand people being cynical of democracies too, but I am not.

ben_w 5y ago
Do you count the USA as a democracy? Because what Snowden revealed was ruled to be illegal and unconstitutional, and without him breaking the law to reveal it, nobody would’ve even known it was happening much less ruled on it. We simply don’t know what else is being done and kept quiet by warning people that nobody else will be able to get away with what Snowden managed to do. The UK similarly, with the extra twist that the court ruling it illegal was the ECtHR, whose jurisdiction the UK government keeps making noises about leaving: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45510662 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45510662 and https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36128318 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36128318 (ECtHR: the court, ECHR: either the court or the convention the court interprets)
- webmobdev 5y ago
  Yes, I do consider the US a democracy. Democracies experience highs and lows too, as leaders and generations changes. It doesn't mean there is no hope for it, or that the people are weak. Snowden broke US laws to reveal something he saw as unjust. That's standing up for democratic values and rights. That's how you make people aware about something and a movement emerges. (And why even you and me are now discussing privacy laws). He may be persecuted and even hounded for it. History tells us that has always been how it is. Gandhi spent nearly 7+ years in jail protesting against British imperialism and demanding freedom for India. India's first Prime Minister spent around 8000+ days in jail (nearly 8 years) during India's freedom struggle ... "And, my friends, in this story you have a history of this entire movement. First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you." - Nicholas Klein, Union leader
  - ben_w 5y ago
    Then what you want is strong democracy, strong courts, strong press freedom, and strong whistleblower rights — very different from merely having strong laws. I mean, the literal reason I went straight to DPRK is that they have the laws without the foundations to make them relevant.

ben_w 5y ago

Do you count the USA as a democracy? Because what Snowden revealed was ruled to be illegal and unconstitutional, and without him breaking the law to reveal it, nobody would’ve even known it was happening much less ruled on it. We simply don’t know what else is being done and kept quiet by warning people that nobody else will be able to get away with what Snowden managed to do. The UK similarly, with the extra twist that the court ruling it illegal was the ECtHR, whose jurisdiction the UK government keeps making noises about leaving: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45510662 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45510662 and https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36128318 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36128318 (ECtHR: the court, ECHR: either the court or the convention the court interprets)

webmobdev 5y ago
Yes, I do consider the US a democracy. Democracies experience highs and lows too, as leaders and generations changes. It doesn't mean there is no hope for it, or that the people are weak. Snowden broke US laws to reveal something he saw as unjust. That's standing up for democratic values and rights. That's how you make people aware about something and a movement emerges. (And why even you and me are now discussing privacy laws). He may be persecuted and even hounded for it. History tells us that has always been how it is. Gandhi spent nearly 7+ years in jail protesting against British imperialism and demanding freedom for India. India's first Prime Minister spent around 8000+ days in jail (nearly 8 years) during India's freedom struggle ... "And, my friends, in this story you have a history of this entire movement. First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you." - Nicholas Klein, Union leader
- ben_w 5y ago
  Then what you want is strong democracy, strong courts, strong press freedom, and strong whistleblower rights — very different from merely having strong laws. I mean, the literal reason I went straight to DPRK is that they have the laws without the foundations to make them relevant.