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Apple (& BigTech) make money from lax privacy laws. When governments are not abusing the same weak privacy laws while using such spywares, they are generally wo

Apple (& BigTech) make money from lax privacy laws. When governments are not abusing the same weak privacy laws while using such spywares, they are generally working to protect national interests. (Usually when a government spies on you, for whatever reason, they follow due process of the law). There's a lot of difference in being spied on by a corporate vs government. When abusive, it's a different kind of exploitation. But the solution to both is the same - strong privacy laws.

mcphage 5y ago
How does Apple make money from lax privacy laws?
- webmobdev 5y ago
  When privacy laws are weak in a country, Apple can collect more user data without their consent. The more data they have on a user, the better they can monetise it.
  - mcphage 5y ago
    Monetize it how, though? Like how exactly does Apple make that money?
    - webmobdev 5y ago
      Google just paid Apple $15 billion to be the default search engine on ios platform. Let's assume that lax privacy laws of a particular country allow data sharing between Google and Apple, and they've negotiated a data sharing agreement in their contract. This means Apple can now have access to all search queries of any user who uses the Google search engine. Let's also assume that Apple has access to the users browsing history (they do if you enable Safari / iCloud tabs with iCloud) and weak privacy laws allow them to use this data however they want. With just a user's browsing history and search data, Apple can get a lot of insights into the user's personal and professional interests. Once it builds these kind of profiles, they can now use it in various ways: - Show you ads in apps / websites based on your interests. (Apple has an advertising network). - Promote paid apps that match your interest to tempt you to pay for it. (Apple has an App store). - Increase the price of apps that Apple thinks you may be interested in, based on your personal data. (Apple gets a percentage from every paid app). and so on ... there is a lot of other ways to exploit such user data - e.g. Apple uses the credit card data user provide it get the user's financial credit score. They collate this data, along with other data points, to price their products ("hey, we have a lot of rich users, let's price our product higher" or "some of our users our from middle income group - let's ask AT&T to create a financial package so that they can buy our costly phones and pay in installment"). Heck, with Apple Pay, I won't even be surprised if they even know everything you buy from them.
      - pkaye 5y ago
        > Google just paid Apple $15 billion to be the default search engine on ios platform. But that happens even with Mozilla Fire Fox and people seem to be okay with it.
        webmobdev 5y ago
        The context of the discussion was about collection and monetisation of user data in the absence of strong privacy laws, with specific reference to Apple. Hence the reference to the Google - Apple deal. (And Mozilla and Apple have different business models and thus users have different perceptions about them vis privacy).
ben_w 5y ago
Strong privacy laws can’t stop a government, because a government can repeal or modify them on a whim. Or make it so you can’t actually face prosecution if you violate them no matter what the theoretical penalty is. For an example of why governments can’t be trusted to obey their own laws, the North Korean constitution has clauses ‘guaranteeing’ the freedoms of speech and assembly, freedom of press, freedom of religion, and achieves none of these things.
- webmobdev 5y ago
  I was obviously talking about democracies and not authoritarian regimes. I can understand people being cynical of democracies too, but I am not.
  - ben_w 5y ago
    Do you count the USA as a democracy? Because what Snowden revealed was ruled to be illegal and unconstitutional, and without him breaking the law to reveal it, nobody would’ve even known it was happening much less ruled on it. We simply don’t know what else is being done and kept quiet by warning people that nobody else will be able to get away with what Snowden managed to do. The UK similarly, with the extra twist that the court ruling it illegal was the ECtHR, whose jurisdiction the UK government keeps making noises about leaving: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45510662 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45510662 and https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36128318 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36128318 (ECtHR: the court, ECHR: either the court or the convention the court interprets)
    - webmobdev 5y ago
      Yes, I do consider the US a democracy. Democracies experience highs and lows too, as leaders and generations changes. It doesn't mean there is no hope for it, or that the people are weak. Snowden broke US laws to reveal something he saw as unjust. That's standing up for democratic values and rights. That's how you make people aware about something and a movement emerges. (And why even you and me are now discussing privacy laws). He may be persecuted and even hounded for it. History tells us that has always been how it is. Gandhi spent nearly 7+ years in jail protesting against British imperialism and demanding freedom for India. India's first Prime Minister spent around 8000+ days in jail (nearly 8 years) during India's freedom struggle ... "And, my friends, in this story you have a history of this entire movement. First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you." - Nicholas Klein, Union leader

mcphage 5y ago

How does Apple make money from lax privacy laws?

webmobdev 5y ago
When privacy laws are weak in a country, Apple can collect more user data without their consent. The more data they have on a user, the better they can monetise it.
- mcphage 5y ago
  Monetize it how, though? Like how exactly does Apple make that money?
  - webmobdev 5y ago
    Google just paid Apple $15 billion to be the default search engine on ios platform. Let's assume that lax privacy laws of a particular country allow data sharing between Google and Apple, and they've negotiated a data sharing agreement in their contract. This means Apple can now have access to all search queries of any user who uses the Google search engine. Let's also assume that Apple has access to the users browsing history (they do if you enable Safari / iCloud tabs with iCloud) and weak privacy laws allow them to use this data however they want. With just a user's browsing history and search data, Apple can get a lot of insights into the user's personal and professional interests. Once it builds these kind of profiles, they can now use it in various ways: - Show you ads in apps / websites based on your interests. (Apple has an advertising network). - Promote paid apps that match your interest to tempt you to pay for it. (Apple has an App store). - Increase the price of apps that Apple thinks you may be interested in, based on your personal data. (Apple gets a percentage from every paid app). and so on ... there is a lot of other ways to exploit such user data - e.g. Apple uses the credit card data user provide it get the user's financial credit score. They collate this data, along with other data points, to price their products ("hey, we have a lot of rich users, let's price our product higher" or "some of our users our from middle income group - let's ask AT&T to create a financial package so that they can buy our costly phones and pay in installment"). Heck, with Apple Pay, I won't even be surprised if they even know everything you buy from them.
    - pkaye 5y ago
      > Google just paid Apple $15 billion to be the default search engine on ios platform. But that happens even with Mozilla Fire Fox and people seem to be okay with it.
      - webmobdev 5y ago
        The context of the discussion was about collection and monetisation of user data in the absence of strong privacy laws, with specific reference to Apple. Hence the reference to the Google - Apple deal. (And Mozilla and Apple have different business models and thus users have different perceptions about them vis privacy).

ben_w 5y ago

Strong privacy laws can’t stop a government, because a government can repeal or modify them on a whim. Or make it so you can’t actually face prosecution if you violate them no matter what the theoretical penalty is. For an example of why governments can’t be trusted to obey their own laws, the North Korean constitution has clauses ‘guaranteeing’ the freedoms of speech and assembly, freedom of press, freedom of religion, and achieves none of these things.

webmobdev 5y ago
I was obviously talking about democracies and not authoritarian regimes. I can understand people being cynical of democracies too, but I am not.
- ben_w 5y ago
  Do you count the USA as a democracy? Because what Snowden revealed was ruled to be illegal and unconstitutional, and without him breaking the law to reveal it, nobody would’ve even known it was happening much less ruled on it. We simply don’t know what else is being done and kept quiet by warning people that nobody else will be able to get away with what Snowden managed to do. The UK similarly, with the extra twist that the court ruling it illegal was the ECtHR, whose jurisdiction the UK government keeps making noises about leaving: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45510662 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45510662 and https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36128318 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36128318 (ECtHR: the court, ECHR: either the court or the convention the court interprets)
  - webmobdev 5y ago
    Yes, I do consider the US a democracy. Democracies experience highs and lows too, as leaders and generations changes. It doesn't mean there is no hope for it, or that the people are weak. Snowden broke US laws to reveal something he saw as unjust. That's standing up for democratic values and rights. That's how you make people aware about something and a movement emerges. (And why even you and me are now discussing privacy laws). He may be persecuted and even hounded for it. History tells us that has always been how it is. Gandhi spent nearly 7+ years in jail protesting against British imperialism and demanding freedom for India. India's first Prime Minister spent around 8000+ days in jail (nearly 8 years) during India's freedom struggle ... "And, my friends, in this story you have a history of this entire movement. First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you." - Nicholas Klein, Union leader