4 ms·

Capitalism begets grifters as a matter of necessity. This arena might be reserved for compulsive liars and psychopaths were we not compelled by society to make

Capitalism begets grifters as a matter of necessity. This arena might be reserved for compulsive liars and psychopaths were we not compelled by society to make ends meet regardless of whether or not the ends ethically justify the means. In this society, bullshitting is built-in at every level to some degree and being savvy in it can be the difference between subsisting and not.

nomoreplease 5y ago
> Capitalism begets grifters as a matter of necessity. While I don’t disagree, I expect there’s a substantially equivalent number of grifters under socialism as well
- tehjoker 5y ago
  Depending on how the system is constructed, there's less financial incentive for it. Sure, the political arena might have some, but in theory you're supposed to try to weed those people out through the party. Nonetheless, I don't think you can characterize capitalist politicians as anything other than grifters or war mongers.
  - pnathan 5y ago
    Then the grift is to be a party hack and have the party arrange for a nice dacha for you, good schools for the kids. of course, you don't hardly make anything, the party provides, in its benevolence! edit: my point is that grifters show up in any particular structure. not to sling arrows at the USSR or the USA.
  - a9h74j 5y ago
    Not all incentives need be financial. Connections yield better schools, better housing, invitation to more cultural events, etc etc.
  - def_true_false 5y ago
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. It would be great if you people tried reading a history book for once. In particular, stories of people who believed these ideas were great and (despite a bunch of red flags) tried to act on that belief by immigrating to the Soviet Union in 1920s and 1930s, to help build the promised utopia. Spoiler alert: it doesn't end well for most of them.
- coffeefirst 5y ago
  Yeah, this is a thing of human nature. I'm sure if we rolled back to ancient Greece we could find no shortage charlatan oracle-soothsayers who put on a good show but deep down knew they were blowing smoke.
munificent 5y ago
I don't know if grifting is intrinsic to capitalism itself. But it certainly seems to be an emergent property of the unconstrained giant corporation massive income inequality flavor of capitalism we are experiencing. As the number of reasonable avenues towards financial stability dwindles, people will rationally pursue whatever ones are left with greater furvor, even if those paths are morally bankrupt like being an "influencer" or "thought leader". Like rats, we'll push whatever button gets us fed. If we want people to do more meaningful work, we need a culture and economic system that lets them provide a stable life for their family while doing it.

nomoreplease 5y ago

> Capitalism begets grifters as a matter of necessity. While I don’t disagree, I expect there’s a substantially equivalent number of grifters under socialism as well

tehjoker 5y ago
Depending on how the system is constructed, there's less financial incentive for it. Sure, the political arena might have some, but in theory you're supposed to try to weed those people out through the party. Nonetheless, I don't think you can characterize capitalist politicians as anything other than grifters or war mongers.
- pnathan 5y ago
  Then the grift is to be a party hack and have the party arrange for a nice dacha for you, good schools for the kids. of course, you don't hardly make anything, the party provides, in its benevolence! edit: my point is that grifters show up in any particular structure. not to sling arrows at the USSR or the USA.
- a9h74j 5y ago
  Not all incentives need be financial. Connections yield better schools, better housing, invitation to more cultural events, etc etc.
- def_true_false 5y ago
  In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. It would be great if you people tried reading a history book for once. In particular, stories of people who believed these ideas were great and (despite a bunch of red flags) tried to act on that belief by immigrating to the Soviet Union in 1920s and 1930s, to help build the promised utopia. Spoiler alert: it doesn't end well for most of them.
coffeefirst 5y ago
Yeah, this is a thing of human nature. I'm sure if we rolled back to ancient Greece we could find no shortage charlatan oracle-soothsayers who put on a good show but deep down knew they were blowing smoke.

munificent 5y ago

I don't know if grifting is intrinsic to capitalism itself. But it certainly seems to be an emergent property of the unconstrained giant corporation massive income inequality flavor of capitalism we are experiencing. As the number of reasonable avenues towards financial stability dwindles, people will rationally pursue whatever ones are left with greater furvor, even if those paths are morally bankrupt like being an "influencer" or "thought leader". Like rats, we'll push whatever button gets us fed. If we want people to do more meaningful work, we need a culture and economic system that lets them provide a stable life for their family while doing it.