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There was an interesting discussion here the other day about what makes a company a tech company. Reading here about R&D investments like this from a company th

There was an interesting discussion here the other day about what makes a company a tech company. Reading here about R&D investments like this from a company that isn’t considered a ‘tech company,’ I can’t help but think back to that discussion and chuckle.

brianwawok 5y ago
Why? Do you think anything new will come out of this? The market is pretty far past them in battery tech, hard to catch up for the price of 1 tesla battery factory.
- echelon 5y ago
  The world isn't instantly switching to batteries. There's no infrastructure where I live and I can't charge an electric vehicle at either of my condos. My mom lives in the suburbs and I see very few Teslas there. Mostly pickup trucks. Cybertruck is not going to appeal to those folks. There is plenty of time for the incumbents to catch up. Especially when Japan will stand behind their car industry. EVs are still in the Virtual Reality phase of the adoption curve. I'm not going to bet against Tesla, but I'd be happy to buy your Toyota shares at a discount.
  - Rapzid 5y ago
    Yeah.. It's clear that the incumbents are paying very close attention to trends. Not sure why anyone would bet against them, particularly Japanese auto.. I can guess though haha. Heck, the first EV I would look into if I were in the market ATM would be the Chevy Bolt EV/EUV haha.
  - gibolt 5y ago
    So you don't have power in those condos? 95% of charging happens at home. Long trips are well served by the Super/destination charger network. You'll be surprised how much availability there is: https://www.tesla.com/findus https://www.tesla.com/findus
    - dnissley 5y ago
      Thinking through the particulars in my case: How do I charge if I only have street parking? Can I rely on superchargers only? What's the price of those vs charging at home vs gas? Will I destroy my battery over time if I do that? Am I giving up the thing I like most about my current car (2013 civic -- never leaves me stranded + basically only have to get the oil changed + replace wearable items)?
      - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
        The greater reliability of EVs is one of the factors pushing business uptake in areas like taxis. If you dont drive many miles then todays EVs are already fine for your use case. If you drive a lot then the fuel savings are enough for you to want to make it work.
      - gibolt 5y ago
        Lots of places (theaters, grocery stores) have destination chargers (some are even free). If you go to those once or twice a week, top up there. If you don't drive much, a weekly supercharger visit is fine. Keep in mind that charging is currently worst case. It will improve by ~50% each year. Battery degradation is not something you should be worried about. It will remain above 85-90% for hundreds of thousands of miles. Don't forget about depreciation. Gas cars will be worth nothing soon as millions become undesirable. Electric will be so in demand that they'll barely depreciate. Used Model 3s right now are selling for thousands more than a new one.
        echelon 5y ago
        > Gas cars will be worth nothing soon as millions become undesirable. Long bet: in 10 years you're wrong.
        brianwawok 5y ago
        I would put some money on this. There are very few inherit benefits to gas right now except "faster to refill" and "more range between stops". Both get solved by increasing battery densities, charging speeds, etc. At 300 miles range, I have 1 common trip I need to charge for 5 minutes. At 400 miles range (which I can get on an S), all my common trips are charge free. Vacation trips already work great with 300 miles range.
  - brianwawok 5y ago
    Teslas are still selling like hotcakes, and have a 4-6 month wait right now. I see a few more every month in my flyover state. New service center being made in my town. I have only owned 1 condo, but power meters were right by my deeded parking spot. Would have been very easy to slap a charger in. Cannot imagine going back to a Toyota after this. The future is now. Just a matter of if Toyota is able to catch up, or if they have missed the train. They had a huge lead with Prius, and so far have squandered it on fuel cell chasing.
  - panick21 5y ago
    Toyota is behind GM, Ford, VW, Hyundai and everybody else.
  - acchow 5y ago
    Think about how hard it was to get reliable internet on your cell phone for streaming video. iPhone was released in 2007 followed by rapid deployment of infrastructure. I have been streaming Netflix reliably even in a moving car since at least 2016 or 2017. It took less than a decade. When consumers demand infrastructure, it arrives swiftly.
- RobLach 5y ago
  You don't need to catch up, you need to get 95% of the way there, which Toyota is definitely capable of doing. Then you compete beyond batteries and overcome the differences and then some, which Toyota also very much can.
- thomaskcr 5y ago
  Do you mean panasonic battery factory? Because that's who Tesla buys most of their cells from (some LG and in China CATL). Tesla has no scale battery manufacturing right now.
acchow 5y ago
Toyota's revenue is 27T JPY. This 1.5T figure over 9 years is 0.16T per year or about 0.6% of their annual revenue. That this even makes the news is indeed worth chuckling about.

brianwawok 5y ago

Why? Do you think anything new will come out of this? The market is pretty far past them in battery tech, hard to catch up for the price of 1 tesla battery factory.

echelon 5y ago
The world isn't instantly switching to batteries. There's no infrastructure where I live and I can't charge an electric vehicle at either of my condos. My mom lives in the suburbs and I see very few Teslas there. Mostly pickup trucks. Cybertruck is not going to appeal to those folks. There is plenty of time for the incumbents to catch up. Especially when Japan will stand behind their car industry. EVs are still in the Virtual Reality phase of the adoption curve. I'm not going to bet against Tesla, but I'd be happy to buy your Toyota shares at a discount.
- Rapzid 5y ago
  Yeah.. It's clear that the incumbents are paying very close attention to trends. Not sure why anyone would bet against them, particularly Japanese auto.. I can guess though haha. Heck, the first EV I would look into if I were in the market ATM would be the Chevy Bolt EV/EUV haha.
- gibolt 5y ago
  So you don't have power in those condos? 95% of charging happens at home. Long trips are well served by the Super/destination charger network. You'll be surprised how much availability there is: https://www.tesla.com/findus https://www.tesla.com/findus
  - dnissley 5y ago
    Thinking through the particulars in my case: How do I charge if I only have street parking? Can I rely on superchargers only? What's the price of those vs charging at home vs gas? Will I destroy my battery over time if I do that? Am I giving up the thing I like most about my current car (2013 civic -- never leaves me stranded + basically only have to get the oil changed + replace wearable items)?
    - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
      The greater reliability of EVs is one of the factors pushing business uptake in areas like taxis. If you dont drive many miles then todays EVs are already fine for your use case. If you drive a lot then the fuel savings are enough for you to want to make it work.
    - gibolt 5y ago
      Lots of places (theaters, grocery stores) have destination chargers (some are even free). If you go to those once or twice a week, top up there. If you don't drive much, a weekly supercharger visit is fine. Keep in mind that charging is currently worst case. It will improve by ~50% each year. Battery degradation is not something you should be worried about. It will remain above 85-90% for hundreds of thousands of miles. Don't forget about depreciation. Gas cars will be worth nothing soon as millions become undesirable. Electric will be so in demand that they'll barely depreciate. Used Model 3s right now are selling for thousands more than a new one.
      - echelon 5y ago
        > Gas cars will be worth nothing soon as millions become undesirable. Long bet: in 10 years you're wrong.
        brianwawok 5y ago
        I would put some money on this. There are very few inherit benefits to gas right now except "faster to refill" and "more range between stops". Both get solved by increasing battery densities, charging speeds, etc. At 300 miles range, I have 1 common trip I need to charge for 5 minutes. At 400 miles range (which I can get on an S), all my common trips are charge free. Vacation trips already work great with 300 miles range.
- brianwawok 5y ago
  Teslas are still selling like hotcakes, and have a 4-6 month wait right now. I see a few more every month in my flyover state. New service center being made in my town. I have only owned 1 condo, but power meters were right by my deeded parking spot. Would have been very easy to slap a charger in. Cannot imagine going back to a Toyota after this. The future is now. Just a matter of if Toyota is able to catch up, or if they have missed the train. They had a huge lead with Prius, and so far have squandered it on fuel cell chasing.
- panick21 5y ago
  Toyota is behind GM, Ford, VW, Hyundai and everybody else.
- acchow 5y ago
  Think about how hard it was to get reliable internet on your cell phone for streaming video. iPhone was released in 2007 followed by rapid deployment of infrastructure. I have been streaming Netflix reliably even in a moving car since at least 2016 or 2017. It took less than a decade. When consumers demand infrastructure, it arrives swiftly.
RobLach 5y ago
You don't need to catch up, you need to get 95% of the way there, which Toyota is definitely capable of doing. Then you compete beyond batteries and overcome the differences and then some, which Toyota also very much can.
thomaskcr 5y ago
Do you mean panasonic battery factory? Because that's who Tesla buys most of their cells from (some LG and in China CATL). Tesla has no scale battery manufacturing right now.

acchow 5y ago

Toyota's revenue is 27T JPY. This 1.5T figure over 9 years is 0.16T per year or about 0.6% of their annual revenue. That this even makes the news is indeed worth chuckling about.