5 ms·

> Fair point. An overrun issue can be mitigated if a) hospitals would not dismiss unvaccinated staff thereby leading them to be understaffed (an unstaffed bed =

> Fair point. An overrun issue can be mitigated if a) hospitals would not dismiss unvaccinated staff thereby leading them to be understaffed (an unstaffed bed = not a bed, which is one reason why hospitals "don't have enough beds") I don't believe this is actually a problem. I think you're either mistaken or making this up. Got a citation I might believe this is actually causing any meaningful effects? Because if not, I think hospital staff have a duty to do everything in their power, within reason, to not harm their patients, or make pandemics worse. Which is exactly what someone working with covid patents would do, turn one infection and 20 maybes into 22 infections. > US medical staff would accept more of the treatment options available in other countries (Japan, India, etc) such as ivermectin. I'm super hopeful ivermectin is proven to be a useful antiviral. Which it currently isn't. We're in dire need of useful antivirals, and it's only going to get worse. The US has a nasty history of experimenting on it's population, one we're rightfully very careful to make sure we don't repeat. So pretending ivermectin is anything other than uncontrolled experimentation is dishonest at best. There are times when experimental treatments are justified. Hospital capacity ethically speaking isn't one of them. This may be me, but I like my first line treatments to be backed by large sample, peer approved research before they're used. Radical treatments for the critically ill is another topic; but that's not what we're talking about here is it?

hammock 5y ago
> So pretending ivermectin is anything other than uncontrolled experimentation is dishonest at best. Ivermectin treatment for Covid is now supported by 113 studies, 73 of which have been peer reviewed. This includes 63 controlled trials with a total of 26,398 patients, and 31 randomized controlled trials. Here are links to 51 of them. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-021-00430-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-021-00430-5 https://iv.iiarjournals.org/content/34/5/3023.long https://iv.iiarjournals.org/content/34/5/3023.long https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2020.592908/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2020.5929... https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/10.2217/fvl-2020-0342 https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/10.2217/fvl-2020-0342 https://doi.org/10.2217/fvl-2020-0342 https://doi.org/10.2217/fvl-2020-0342 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167488911001145 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016748891... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0166354219307211?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01663... https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00210-020-01902-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00210-020-01902-5 https://doi.org/10.1038/s41429-020-0336-z https://doi.org/10.1038/s41429-020-0336-z https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016635422... https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cpt.1909 https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cpt.1909 https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-73308/v1 https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-73308/v1 https://doi.org/10.1038%2Fs41579-020-00468-6 https://doi.org/10.1038%2Fs41579-020-00468-6 https://www.pnas.org/content/112/30/9436 https://www.pnas.org/content/112/30/9436 https://doi.org/10.3389%2Ffmicb.2020.592908 https://doi.org/10.3389%2Ffmicb.2020.592908 https://www.embopress.org/doi/full/10.1093/emboj/16.23.7067 https://www.embopress.org/doi/full/10.1093/emboj/16.23.7067 https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/222/5/734/5860442 https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/222/5/734/5860442 https://doi.org/10.1038%2Fs41418-020-00633-7 https://doi.org/10.1038%2Fs41418-020-00633-7 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0168170 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... https://www.cell.com/cell-host-microbe/fulltext/S1931-3128(20)30290-0 https://www.cell.com/cell-host-microbe/fulltext/S1931-3128(2... https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00011-008-8007-8 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00011-008-8007-... https://doi.org/10.1038/sigtrans.2017.23 https://doi.org/10.1038/sigtrans.2017.23 https://jeccr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13046-019-1251-7 https://jeccr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13046-019-... https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1443 https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1443 https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2015432 https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2015432 https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(20)30234-6/fulltext https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(20)302... https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.00827/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.0082... https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6504/718 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6504/718 https://ann-clinmicrob.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12941-020-00362-2 https://ann-clinmicrob.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1... https://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/72/2/486 https://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/72/2/486 https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/JVI.01012-07 https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/JVI.01012-07 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41418-020-00633-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41418-020-00633-7 https://doi.org/10.3390%2Fcancers11101527 https://doi.org/10.3390%2Fcancers11101527 https://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/76/15/4457 https://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/76/15/4457 https://rupress.org/jgp/article/123/3/281/33850/Mechanism-of-Ivermectin-Facilitation-of-Human-P2X4 https://rupress.org/jgp/article/123/3/281/33850/Mechanism-of... https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2017.00291/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2017.0029... https://www.jimmunol.org/content/200/3/1159 https://www.jimmunol.org/content/200/3/1159 https://molmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s10020-020-00172-4 https://molmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s10020-020... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29511601/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29511601/ https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30293-0/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1472-8206.2009.00684.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1472-8206... https://doi.org/10.1007%2Fs00011-011-0307-8 https://doi.org/10.1007%2Fs00011-011-0307-8 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(17)30376-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-39... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22417684/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22417684/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7502160/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7502160/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7605516/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7605516/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27302166/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27302166/ https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00210-020-01902-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00210-020-01902-5 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6826853/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6826853/ https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3636557 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3636557 https://www.embopress.org/doi/full/10.15252/emmm.202114122 https://www.embopress.org/doi/full/10.15252/emmm.202114122
- grayhatter 5y ago
  I don't have time to read all of these articles but the first three I spot checked before I stopped said nothing about ivermectin so this is the most intellectually dishonest and argumentally malicious post I've read in a long time congratulations. I don't know what psychotic forum you pulled this copy paste off of but if you expect others to believe what you post perhaps you should at least try to do the most basic of investigations and just see if any of these articles actually mentioned the word ivermectin at all. I am angry I've spent as much time reading these articles as I already have.
  - saalweachter 5y ago
    So far clicking through a dozen or so from the top I've seen a mix of (a) review articles/lit searches outlining past research on ivermectin or other repurpose-able drugs as antivirals (b) in vitro studies (c) articles about the theoretical ways ivermectin could work [mostly about binding sites, with one long one going over the entire virus life-cycle] and (d) two or three like you saw that don't even mention ivermectin. Looks like a galloping Gish to me. (Oh hey, it looks like #48 is the same as #8.)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- moistly 5y ago
  You are such a dishonest participant in these discussions that you should be banned from HN.
  - readflaggedcomm 5y ago
    He is, he should not be spamming links, and just post the hate site https://ivmmeta.com/ https://ivmmeta.com/ he got them from.

hammock 5y ago

> So pretending ivermectin is anything other than uncontrolled experimentation is dishonest at best. Ivermectin treatment for Covid is now supported by 113 studies, 73 of which have been peer reviewed. This includes 63 controlled trials with a total of 26,398 patients, and 31 randomized controlled trials. Here are links to 51 of them. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-021-00430-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-021-00430-5 https://iv.iiarjournals.org/content/34/5/3023.long https://iv.iiarjournals.org/content/34/5/3023.long https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2020.592908/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2020.5929... https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/10.2217/fvl-2020-0342 https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/10.2217/fvl-2020-0342 https://doi.org/10.2217/fvl-2020-0342 https://doi.org/10.2217/fvl-2020-0342 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167488911001145 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016748891... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0166354219307211?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01663... https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00210-020-01902-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00210-020-01902-5 https://doi.org/10.1038/s41429-020-0336-z https://doi.org/10.1038/s41429-020-0336-z https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016635422... https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cpt.1909 https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cpt.1909 https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-73308/v1 https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-73308/v1 https://doi.org/10.1038%2Fs41579-020-00468-6 https://doi.org/10.1038%2Fs41579-020-00468-6 https://www.pnas.org/content/112/30/9436 https://www.pnas.org/content/112/30/9436 https://doi.org/10.3389%2Ffmicb.2020.592908 https://doi.org/10.3389%2Ffmicb.2020.592908 https://www.embopress.org/doi/full/10.1093/emboj/16.23.7067 https://www.embopress.org/doi/full/10.1093/emboj/16.23.7067 https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/222/5/734/5860442 https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/222/5/734/5860442 https://doi.org/10.1038%2Fs41418-020-00633-7 https://doi.org/10.1038%2Fs41418-020-00633-7 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0168170 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... https://www.cell.com/cell-host-microbe/fulltext/S1931-3128(20)30290-0 https://www.cell.com/cell-host-microbe/fulltext/S1931-3128(2... https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00011-008-8007-8 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00011-008-8007-... https://doi.org/10.1038/sigtrans.2017.23 https://doi.org/10.1038/sigtrans.2017.23 https://jeccr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13046-019-1251-7 https://jeccr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13046-019-... https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1443 https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1443 https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2015432 https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2015432 https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(20)30234-6/fulltext https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(20)302... https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.00827/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.0082... https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6504/718 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6504/718 https://ann-clinmicrob.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12941-020-00362-2 https://ann-clinmicrob.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1... https://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/72/2/486 https://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/72/2/486 https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/JVI.01012-07 https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/JVI.01012-07 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41418-020-00633-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41418-020-00633-7 https://doi.org/10.3390%2Fcancers11101527 https://doi.org/10.3390%2Fcancers11101527 https://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/76/15/4457 https://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/76/15/4457 https://rupress.org/jgp/article/123/3/281/33850/Mechanism-of-Ivermectin-Facilitation-of-Human-P2X4 https://rupress.org/jgp/article/123/3/281/33850/Mechanism-of... https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2017.00291/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2017.0029... https://www.jimmunol.org/content/200/3/1159 https://www.jimmunol.org/content/200/3/1159 https://molmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s10020-020-00172-4 https://molmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s10020-020... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29511601/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29511601/ https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30293-0/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1472-8206.2009.00684.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1472-8206... https://doi.org/10.1007%2Fs00011-011-0307-8 https://doi.org/10.1007%2Fs00011-011-0307-8 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(17)30376-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-39... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22417684/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22417684/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7502160/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7502160/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7605516/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7605516/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27302166/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27302166/ https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00210-020-01902-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00210-020-01902-5 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6826853/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6826853/ https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3636557 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3636557 https://www.embopress.org/doi/full/10.15252/emmm.202114122 https://www.embopress.org/doi/full/10.15252/emmm.202114122

grayhatter 5y ago
I don't have time to read all of these articles but the first three I spot checked before I stopped said nothing about ivermectin so this is the most intellectually dishonest and argumentally malicious post I've read in a long time congratulations. I don't know what psychotic forum you pulled this copy paste off of but if you expect others to believe what you post perhaps you should at least try to do the most basic of investigations and just see if any of these articles actually mentioned the word ivermectin at all. I am angry I've spent as much time reading these articles as I already have.
- saalweachter 5y ago
  So far clicking through a dozen or so from the top I've seen a mix of (a) review articles/lit searches outlining past research on ivermectin or other repurpose-able drugs as antivirals (b) in vitro studies (c) articles about the theoretical ways ivermectin could work [mostly about binding sites, with one long one going over the entire virus life-cycle] and (d) two or three like you saw that don't even mention ivermectin. Looks like a galloping Gish to me. (Oh hey, it looks like #48 is the same as #8.)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
moistly 5y ago
You are such a dishonest participant in these discussions that you should be banned from HN.
- readflaggedcomm 5y ago
  He is, he should not be spamming links, and just post the hate site https://ivmmeta.com/ https://ivmmeta.com/ he got them from.